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P. Martin
Dodge Dakota
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9/04/2004
20:35:27
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 Subject: ticking when going hard
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Dear Friends,
I am the proud owner of a 99 Dakota Sport with a 5.2. Up untill now I have had no problems and been completely happy. The truck has 63,000 miles and runs great except when I accelerate hard going uphill. I then hear a loud (well...loud to me} ticking coming from the motor. I have checked the exhaust manifolds for leaks, spark plug wires, or any foreign obstructions in the pulley system but can't find anything. I suspect possibly valve lash or timing gears could be the problem but I am unsure. When revving the motor in park with my head under the hood I don't hear anything....only when I go to pass some rice burner going uphill. The truck still seems to run fine when ticking but it is very annoying. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
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ZoSo
Dodge Dakota
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9/04/2004
21:31:16
|  RE: ticking when going hard
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I had the same problem with my 99 5.2. Switch to plus or premium gas and the ticking will stop.
Trust me....it's a simple fix the the valve rattle problem with the 5.2's and it doesnt cost anything.
ZoSO
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P. Martin
Dodge Dakota
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9/04/2004
23:33:26
|  RE: ticking when going hard
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Thanks for the tip ZoSo. I will definitely give it a try and hope that's all it is.
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Kowalski
GenIII
9/05/2004
07:42:04
| RE: ticking when going hard
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That should help; but the problem is not "valve rattle". It's the pistons knocking as the fuel charge fires off explosively in that situation, and it can cause severe damage.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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P. Martin
Dodge Dakota
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9/05/2004
14:42:32
| RE: ticking when going hard
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Hey Kowalski,
You say that higher octane juice should "help".
Is there a way to permanately cure the piston knock?
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mcarthey
Dodge Dakota
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9/05/2004
23:58:46
| RE: ticking when going hard
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Check for the infamous plenum pan (aka belly pan) gasket leaking. Shine a flashlight into your throttle body and see if you strike oil.
Mark
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ZoSoAir
Dodge Dakota
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9/06/2004
07:49:01
| RE: ticking when going hard
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On mine it was not leaking. It simply took higher octane gasoline to fix my problem.
ZoSo
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Kowalski
GenIII
9/06/2004
08:17:22
| RE: ticking when going hard
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P. Martin - you'd have to figure out why your truck has changed octane requirements - some possibilities include the start of a belly pan gasket leak as mcarthey suggests, a change in ignition timing, or carboned up combustion chambers. Good luck, I'd start by looking for the plenum leak.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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P. Martin
Dodge Dakota
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9/06/2004
14:10:47
| RE: ticking when going hard
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Well gentlemen, if I were a hillbilly I'd bee moving to Beverly....Hills that is. I popped the throttle body off last night to get a good look down in the intake, and the plenum gasket is blown around two of the passenger side bolts. I tried to do a little reasearch on the replacement and it looks like a new, thicker plenum plate is in order, along with a new felpro metal gasket. Hopefully i can get everything this week and do the work next weekend. Don't have a repair manual for my truck but it looks to be prety straightforward. If anyone knows any special tricks that they have learned doing this themselves, I would love to hear them. All of the advice has been very helpful and truly appreciated.
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Ken
Dodge Dakota
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9/07/2004
17:04:56
| RE: ticking when going hard
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Do yourself a favor, and pick up an M-1 Intake Manifold, and you'll never have this problem again :-) Oh yeah, your grin might increase a little bit more when you hit the accelerator
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P. Martin
Dodge Dakota
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9/07/2004
21:21:15
| RE: ticking when going hard
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Where is the best place to get an M-1, and how much is it going to hurt my wallet?
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Ken
Dodge Dakota
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9/07/2004
22:26:16
| RE: ticking when going hard
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Couple places,
www.socaldakota.com
www.krcperformance.com
Actually surprised that no one else has chimed in here yet :-) If you're stock, or close to it, an M-1 is going to probably hurt your bottom end torque. Should have other mods in place before you do an M-1 (headers, exhaust, etc), stuff that will help get out that airflow that the M-1 will be bringing in.
It'll set you back about 450 bones. If I understand correctly though, it doesn't use/need an intake plenum gasket, so no more problems with it blowing that gasket. Another gasket will just blow on you, but it'll take awhile. Soooo... gotta weight your options there.
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P. Martin
Dodge Dakota
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9/07/2004
23:53:07
| RE: ticking when going hard
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I appreciate the knowledge. I'm going to check into the two places you mentioned. Right now I'll probably just get the thicker plate and better gasket. I just started my apprenticeship as an electrician and money is a little tight. I definitely would like a set of headers and a better exhaust in the future, and at that point, maybe that fancy new intake. Thanks again for the info. If you have any suggestions for the plate and gasket replacement process, I would love to hear them.
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Sneezer
Dodge Dakota
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9/08/2004
09:51:56
| RE: ticking when going hard
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I replaced my intake with an M1 in July. This is on a 1992 Dakota with 187k miles on it. Overall I liked the change, but I also have a ported TB, high flow aircleaner and MSD iginition. There was some loss on the low end, but the mid to upper range got more power.
Another cheaper option than an M1, especially if you do not plan on doing a great deal of performance mods, is an aluminum belly plate. Check out hughesengines.com or APSprecision.com. Both sell a billet aluminum plate kit that replaces the steel stocker. This almost eliminates the belly gasket problem, and will set you back about $100.
Another source for an M1 is mopartsracing.com. This is where I bought mine 3 months ago. His price was actually cheaper than krc or socal. I paid $432 shipped I think, for the M1, install kit and gaskets.
To do the repair, you will have to remove the airhat, TB, alternator, AC compressor and accessory bracket. The fuel rails can be disconnected and simply moved out of the way so you do not need to release the pressure. Same with the AC compressor. Make sure you clean all the dirt and gunk out from around the intake before you remove it so nothing falls into the engine. Also drain some coolant to below the intake, although you will still spill some.
Other items you may need, depending on their condition on your truck - new vacuum hoses and coolant/heater hoses. You might as well put fresh stuff on now, since it will be easier with the truck torn down. Go ahead and replace your thermostat as well. There is also a small elbow hose hidden by the accessory bracket - it connects the water pump to the intake. Mine was a bear to get off. I actually had to cut it in half to remove it, and get a new one. I also had to replace all the vacuum tubing that connected to the manifold as mine was brittle and cracking.
Make sure you have a good torque wrench as well. At least on the M1 there is a specific pattern you have to follow to tighten the bolts. I would assume it would also apply to the stock intake as well.
Once the intake is off you will need to remove the belly pan, then spend some time with a couple cans of carb cleaner cleaning all the oil residue and buildup. Do this in a well ventilated area, as the fumes are pretty strong.
Put everything back together, check for leaks, and check the bolts a couple time to make sure they are still roqued to spec.
Hope this helps, and good luck with the repair.
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actually
Dodge Dakota
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9/08/2004
18:08:26
| RE: ticking when going hard
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the fact is each and every oil refinery produces a slightly different gasoline. Ma Mopar, when they set these engines up when they are designing them uses a fuel that even tho rated at 87 is a bit different then the fuel the guys down the road in the next refinery produces, So what is happening is that the engines are tunes at the factory as if the only fuel you use is made by brand "A". now you who bought the truck lives in another part of the country, and the only stuff you get is produced by brand "R" and even tho it has the same octain rating, the numbers going in to the average octain rating, (you all have seen it on the pump) R plud(some other letter I do not remember) divided by two = octain rating. So if one guys 85 plus 89 div. 2 = 87 that is fine BUT the guy down the road produces fuel that tests out 84 plus 90 div.2 = 87 also. but it is a different fuel chemically. that is why some knock on one brand and some on others. To those that pay attention to this, Fords get better milage and performance on Shell gas (really) and Dodge's seem to run better on Marathon, which is aslo marketed under Bonded, Starvin Marvin, Speedway, Pilot, Total, and several other brand names.
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Really ?
Dodge Dakota
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9/08/2004
18:37:22
| RE: ticking when going hard
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Actually - you might want to reread the post - you'll find the problem ACTUALLY is a blown plenum gasket.
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P. Martin
Dodge Dakota
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9/08/2004
21:22:39
| RE: ticking when going hard
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This site kicks ass.
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P. Martin
Dodge Dakota
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9/08/2004
22:47:53
| RE: ticking when going hard
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thanks a lot sneezer, your info is greatly appreciated.
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mcarthey
Dodge Dakota
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9/08/2004
23:21:32
| RE: ticking when going hard
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As someone mentioned, Hughes Engines sells an upgrade to the pan that is stock on the intake. I ordered mine and it came with a gasket and new bolts so it was easy to take out the box and install. If you use your truck for towing, I wouldn't mess with the intake too much. The "beer barrel" actually has the longest intake runners of pretty much anything you could buy aftermarket. The M1 is near the shortest (I believe). Either way, it equates to less torque on the low end.
As far as removing the intake manifold, the only thing I can recommend is picking up a Haynes. It proved useful for simple things like how to depressurize the fuel system. It's simple, but it's nice to have it stated for you. You just remove the fuel pump relay and try to start the truck. Let it run until it dies. Disconnect the battery and then you can put the relay back in. There's my nickel tip for the day. ;) Other than that, I might recommend picking up some o-rings for the injectors since they're prone to tearing and you don't want to be leaking gas all over when you repressurize. I also needed some hose clamps because I didn't want to replace the water return hose ($9 for a 4" section of hose.. what a joke) so I just tightened it down more, but it's a good time to replace anything that looks questionable. Keep your connections straight.. label if you have to - and especially if you're not sure if you have to. ;) Also, I had a bit of confusion when I was putting all the bolts back in on the front for the alternator/compressor bracket. There are a few that are different lengths. Pay attention where those oddballs go.
I'm sure I could go on with little things like that, but overall it's just a puzzle that comes apart. Not a difficult puzzle but it's always easier if you pay attention to where the pieces went when you took them out.
Plan on spending a day to take it apart and put it back together if you haven't done it before. If you have, you can probably get it done in a couple/few hours.
Enjoy!
Mark
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P. Martin
Dodge Dakota
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9/09/2004
20:37:04
| RE: ticking when going hard
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Thanks for the tips Mark. I do plan on getting the plate from Hughes. A manual probably is not a bad idea either....so O.K., no redneck rebuild for me. I should be able to do it this weekend so I'll try and drop a few lines when I get done. Thanks again.
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