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Jimmy9190
Dodge Dakota
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3/12/2008
14:51:53
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 Subject: V8 Throttle body on 3.9
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Hello everybody,
I have been searching for 3 days on here for info on adding a V8 throttle body to my v6 3.9. It's a 2001 with a 5-speed. It was pinging pretty bad and didn't have that much power. I tried 3 different kinds of plugs and had the combustion chambers cleaned and ran 2 bottles of Regane fuel system cleaner through it and it still pinged. So I put in a 180 degree thermostat and put in a set of 3923's from Walmart and the ping is gone. Hopefully for good this time.
This also helped the truck on the top end too. I can pass people a lot easier now and it will go faster on the interstate now if I need to. I found a used TB from a 2001 Ram Van 360 for $65 at a junk yard. I need to know how it will really effect the low end. I have heard and read that it makes no improvement and it makes it slow from taking off and I have heard it will really wake the truck up on the low end and really improve the throttle response at all speeds. Which is really true? What is the real deal?
Also I read if you use a TB from the same year model as your truck you do not need a new throttle cable, and I also read that you do need one or to modify the new tb to accept the one you have. Which is really true on that?
Thanks for the help and sorry for a long post.
Jimmy
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daddio
Dodge Dakota
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3/12/2008
15:17:45
| RE: V8 Throttle body on 3.9
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jimmy, i have an '00 QC 3.9 5spd and added a v8 tb about 4 yrs ago. no loss on the low end but pulled harder especially after about 2500rpm. as far as the cable need or not, mine was modded. where the throttle cable connects on the v6 tb they used a small disc that the cable end snaps over. all i did to the v8 tb was to remove that throttle cable connection and put a panhead screw with a head on it the same size as the disc from the v6 tb. a couple of lock nuts to hold it in place. works perfectly.
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Jimmy9190
Dodge Dakota
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3/12/2008
16:22:22
| RE: V8 Throttle body on 3.9
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Thanks Daddio. I have heard many more good things than bad about adding the 5.9 TB. But I didn't want to spend the money if it didn't help. Is it true you need to reset the PCM or will the PCM learn the new TB over the course of a few hundred miles? I figured if my cable doesn't work I could put it together with nuts and bolts same as you did. Mine has the same flat disc type attachment as yours. I am sure I have something lying around that will work.
After I get the TB I plan on getting a better air intake and then adding a better flowing muffler. I hope these few mods will help to really wake up my truck without killing the MPG. So far my MPG is the same as it was with the 195 tstat.
Thanks,
Jimmy
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daddio
Dodge Dakota
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3/12/2008
16:54:56
| RE: V8 Throttle body on 3.9
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you can reset the pcm if you want to but, you don't have to. for a better intake, i just pulled out that stupid horn on the airbox then opened the whole front of that box with a sawzall. for a muffler i bought a cheapy cherry bomb turbo. you gotta work with what you got and at this time i don't have much. it works for me. good luck.
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dakota49
Dodge Dakota
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3/12/2008
18:19:40
| RE: V8 Throttle body on 3.9
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Jimmy, daddio won't lead you astray, he's giving you the straight scoop. I am using a Thrush turbo muffler and I am pleased with it, a cheapy, but I like the sound.
Good Luck
Dakota49
1988 3.9 4X4 5speed
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Jimmy9190
Dodge Dakota
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3/12/2008
19:30:39
| RE: V8 Throttle body on 3.9
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Thanks for all the help guys. I'm going to go get the tb this weekend. I know it will help wake up my truck. I already removed the elbow off the stock air box and the rubber flap about 2 years ago. I have looked at opening up the front of the stock air box and instead of putting in a pvc home made intake I will cut out the front of the box and drop in a better flowing paper filter like the Purolator Premium Plus or maybe the Fram Tough Guard. I think it would probably be the same as a K&N for less money and wouldn't pass as much dirt either. And if it doesn't work I know where there's another stock air box in a junk yard. There's another yard here too that has a tb off a 2001 SXT 360 motor, but he wants $125 for it so I'll try the one off the van for half price. If I get time I may even go ahead and do a new muffler if I can find the right price on that. Did anyone loose any MPG with the V8 tb?
Thanks again for the help.
Jimmy
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daddio
Dodge Dakota
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3/12/2008
21:20:04
| RE: V8 Throttle body on 3.9
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no mpg loss for me. in fact for better mileage, the hotter the air coming into the engine the better. for better performance, the cooler air is better.
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ConcertBb
Dodge Dakota
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3/13/2008
07:26:52
| RE: V8 Throttle body on 3.9
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Jimmy,
I gained 2.5mpg with a V8TB. I also put on an edelbrock air hat. It has not been enough gain for the amount of driving I do though, will be getting a small car and old truck. So if you are not in a hurry I will be reverting back to stock when I sell the truck. It's an 02, so it will fit yours. You can have the TB and air hat for $75.
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Warren
Dodge Dakota
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3/13/2008
07:50:48
| RE: V8 Throttle body on 3.9
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If you are interested in improving performance and mpg in your 3.9 v6, you are on the right track? If you are going to increase the amount of air flow going in that is good, but to truly benefit from it you have to be able to exhaust more as well. I found a really nice set of direct bolt on headers from a company called (racingpartsdepot), I found this company on Ebay. I couldn't find headers for my 94 v6 anywhere else, but managed to find them here for $295 plus $25 shipping. I'll let you know how it affects performance. I'm also installing a high performance TB spacer kit.
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dakownr
Dodge Dakota
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3/13/2008
10:15:28
| RE: V8 Throttle body on 3.9
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Uh, Warren, that "high performance TB spacer kit" will have the same effect as opening your tailgate and then attatching bottle rockets to the bed to make it go faster. If you search around on this site, it is explained many times why these spacers don't do jacksh*t for performance OR gas mileage. If you already purchased it, try to return it, and don't feel too stupid, you aren't the first (or the last) person to believe the advertisement hype.
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Warren
Dodge Dakota
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3/13/2008
12:41:16
| RE: V8 Throttle body on 3.9
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You may be right, however, with 20 years as a class and ASE certified mechanic, I have to say that the theory of it's operation is correct and factual. It doesn't work on all applications due to different throttle body designs and intake configurations, however, on many applications the vortec effect that the right TB spacer can provide will help the air and fuel mixture to better atomize and facilitate a more efficient and complete burning. Many inexperienced folks will complain of the whistling sound created, that sound is the desired effect of increasing the velocity and swirling effect of the air entering. That's too bad that your experience wasn't a better one. This won't work on all applications, but it does work on many. ps... The TB spacer also provides for further separation of the TB from the intake which helps reduce the tempurature of incoming air, which in turn provides better combustion.
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Jimmy9190
Dodge Dakota
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3/13/2008
18:23:56
| RE: V8 Throttle body on 3.9
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Thanks again for all the help here guys. I appreciate your offer Concert but I am going to get the one from the junk yard Saturday if they still have it. I now know the TB and better exhaust/muffler will really help out my truck. I'm going to try just enlarging the opening in the front of the air box with my regular paper air filter first then maybe upgrade it to a Purolator or Fram TG. I don't know if I want headers but let us know how yours work out Warren.
Thanks again. If anyone here has an audio system problem or alarm/accessory or electrical problem sometime maybe I can return the favor and help you out.
Jimmy
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daddio
Dodge Dakota
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3/13/2008
20:25:28
| RE: V8 Throttle body on 3.9
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if headers are too expensive for your taste you could get the exhaust manifolds from a '92 or '93 3.9. those years have a little larger ports in them. thats why those years were rated @ 180hp and all yrs after that are rated @ 175hp. maybe a little more there if you clean up the castings too.
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ConcertBb
Dodge Dakota
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3/14/2008
08:11:16
| RE: V8 Throttle body on 3.9
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Warren,
The whistling is caused by resistance. That translates to restricted air flow. As a musician I can tell that sound requires energy to be produced. That energy is at the expense of air flow. Simple test, breathe in through your nose and then your mouth, which makes less noise and gets more air in? TB spacers and the like are snake oil. The best way to get more air in is to have the largest opening and the shortest route. So, if you have a whistle, you have restriction.
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Jimmy9190
Dodge Dakota
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3/15/2008
15:51:16
|  RE: V8 Throttle body on 3.9
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Well there's good news and not so good news. I went and got the TB today and it was not from an 01 Ram Van it was off a 1998 Ram Van and so I had to get the Holley ball stud set from the parts store and cut off some parts of the linkage and drill out the stud for the van throttle cable. That seemed to have worked OK but there is a strange delay in the throttle sort of like when you miss a shift. It happens when I shift from 1st to 2nd then 2nd to 3rd, like the cable is too slack. But the cable is straight and tight when idling or when the engine is off, so I don't know what that delay is from. The ball stud on the new tb is about a half inch lower than the stud on my original V6 tb. I don't know if that has anything to do with it. It might just be my truck needs to get used to the bigger shot of air from the tb and it could very well be that I need to adjust to it also. The longer I went on my test drive today the better it seemed to get. The tb sure did help out the response and it seems to have more power when going uphill or passing, but in the lower rpm's it seems I have to give it more gas to get going so I need to drive it more I think. All in all it was a real good mod for not a lot of money and I am very happy with it. I just wish I could have got only the ball stud I needed for a dollar or two instead of a whole assortment for $12.95. But it was good to have on hand all the ones I might have needed.
I took a dremel to the OE air box and cut out the front end larger, and that made a very noticeable difference too. It has a little bit of a howl to it at lower rpm's but I will take that for better performance. Wish I had done that one sooner too.
Now for the not so good news. My belly pan gasket is definitely blown and leaking. With the tb off I got a real good look toward the back, front and sides inside the manifold and I have oil oozing from the sides and collecting in the front and back ends of the manifold. It's not much oil, maybe 2 tablespoons at the very most but that is very likely the cause of the ping I had. So that's the next project. I'll get the Hughes M1 part and fix it the right way permanently. It will probably take me 2 or 3 days to do, though as slow as I am whan fixing my truck. Do you get the best price on the part buying direct from Hughes or does anyone know another supplier?
Thanks for all the help here guys. I appreciate it.
Jimmy
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Jimmy9190
Dodge Dakota
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3/16/2008
14:26:53
| RE: V8 Throttle body on 3.9
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Truck is running great now and no problems with the throttle either. It turned out I had tightened the TPS screws too tightly and the throttle plates couldn't open and close correctly. I loosened them up some and the TB is doing great now. I wish I had got one long ago. It improved my engine's performance and power 200%. V8 TB is a great mod.
Thanks everybody for helping me here.
Jimmy
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dakownr
Dodge Dakota
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3/17/2008
00:16:10
| RE: V8 Throttle body on 3.9
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Warren; I don't want to get into a pissing match about a TB spacer, I was just trying to save you some dough so that you may spend it on something a little more worthwhile. So, I will just try to explain what I had stated and leave it at that. I was not questioning your credentials or knowledge. I agree that the theory is good-as long as it is used for the correct applications.
"On many applications the vortec effect that the right TB spacer can provide will help the air and fuel mixture to better atomize and facilitate a more efficient and complete burning."
The problem is not getting the correct TB spacer, it's getting the right application for the spacer. On any 3.9/5.2/5.9 magnum engine (and probably all other engines made after the late 80s/early 90s), the spacer is useless due to the fact that the fuel isn't mixed with the air at the throttle body. Instead, the fuel is mixed with the air shortly before it enters the combustion chamber. Also, the spacers with the "helix bore" (which is I guess what you're speaking of) may very well spin the air, but by the time that whiling dervish air goes into the barrel-shaped manifold, makes a sharp turn to go into the runners, and makes another turn to go into the combustion chamber, the spinning effect has completely vanished, rendering the spacer useless.
As far as my experience, I had considered purchasing one, but did alot of research on websites such as this and plenty of other ones to find out that they are useless for our applications.
Now, if you had an engine with either a carb or one of the old-school throttle bodies that were basically an electric carb, then the spacers have been shown to help. Again, with these applications, the air and fuel is mixed together BEFORE it even goes into the intake manifold.
So, with all of that being said, if you still want to disagree, so be it, I have stated my side in order to save you and others some dough. If others also say that I am wrong, and can explain it logically to me, I will stand corrected.
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pete
Dodge Dakota
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3/18/2008
11:03:49
| RE: V8 Throttle body on 3.9
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wow!! would thought coolant sensor solve all your issues you were having before TB swap, agree with you Warren,not trying be a d!ckhead Jimmy9190 coolant sensor can cause alot of havoc problems
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Jimmy9190
Dodge Dakota
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3/18/2008
14:37:44
| RE: V8 Throttle body on 3.9
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I think the sensor was working OK, but tyhe top of the plastic housing on it was broken, was all that was wrong. The temp gauge never read wrong. Truck is doing great now with the V8 TB and the other few mods I have done recently. I passed a slow car yeaterday and didn't even have the throttle half way down. I am very pleased with it, just need to get used to a little bit stiffer gas pedal now.
Thanks,
Jimmy
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Warren
Dodge Dakota
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3/19/2008
09:38:57
| RE: V8 Throttle body on 3.9
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Hey Dakowner, no pissing match to worry about on the TB spacer. One thing that I've learned during my time as a mechanic, especially whe nit comes to performance mods, mechs will disagree. Also, what works well on one model can make another model truck run poorly. I did install the helix tb spacer and have noticed an impressive response. I did some serious research and discovered that 1994 and earlier models noticed a nice improvement, after 1994 noticed nothing or worse performance. The helix tb spacer seems to give it a similar effect to having a polished or tuned intake manifold. Either way, my truck is running better than it has in years. You sound like a knowledgeable mechanic and I've gained some valuable advice from many of your previous postings. Thanks
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Mike98
Dodge Dakota
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3/22/2008
03:54:27
| RE: V8 Throttle body on 3.9
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Hey, Jimmy -- or anyone else...
Do you remember the size of the ball stud you needed for the TB conversion? I'd also like to avoid buying the assortment, but not if I have to remove the cable and bring it into a hardware store with me...
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