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AC 2000 4.7L
Dodge Dakota
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7/04/2003
02:40:14
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 Subject: K/B Optimizer II or Jet Stage II??
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Let's hear it folks...which one is better for 2000 4.7 auto, the K/B Optimizer II or the JetChip stage II module? Price is roughly the same... has anyone tried both?
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WELL,
Dodge Dakota
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7/04/2003
14:28:27
|  RE: K/B Optimizer II or Jet Stage II??
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noT THIS has been asked ad noseum, but, if they are about the same price, the jet 2 is taking you up the wazoo!
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Tom D
Dodge Dakota
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7/04/2003
15:37:39
|  RE: K/B Optimizer II or Jet Stage II??
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Have you thought about a piggy back computer.
See my posts under SMT6.
Never have to flash your ECU again.
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AC 2000 4.7L
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/05/2003
15:07:48
| RE: K/B Optimizer II or Jet Stage II??
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OK,OK. I realize that this subject has been talked to death, but it seems most guys have experienced one or the other. I was just wondering if anyone has had a chance to compare. Are the HP & performance gains that are advertised realistic, or are they just blowin' smoke to sell a product?
In regards to the SMT6 piggy-back computer, it looks and sounds interesting, even for more than double the $$. Why aren't more guys using and talking about this product?
Thanks for the input.
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MG42PILLBOX
Dodge Dakota
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7/06/2003
18:29:19
| RE: K/B Optimizer II or Jet Stage II??
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K/B. Optimizer II is Superior. Also Helps makes the trainy shift much better.
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4.7
Dodge Dakota
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7/06/2003
21:04:50
| RE: K/B Optimizer II or Jet Stage II??
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Message:
if you search for "jet chip" and "paperweight"
you should find your answer.
it sounds like you have a 2000 4.7, you're
probably better off having Mike Leach flash
your ecu
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AC 2000 4.7L
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/07/2003
03:03:44
| RE: K/B Optimizer II or Jet Stage II??
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OK. So it sounds like JetChip is a cowchip, seeing as no one has responded to its defense. I have tried to find info about Mike Leach but I only come up with exhaust products, and I can't seem to find their website. Anyone got it handy?
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j
GenIII
7/07/2003
10:07:55
| RE: K/B Optimizer II or Jet Stage II??
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No website. Phone number = 714 639-5220.
2000 4.7 CC auto, clear corners, Magnaflow catback, Kenne Bell s/c, Aquamist water injection.
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AC 2000 4.7L
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/08/2003
00:12:06
| RE: K/B Optimizer II or Jet Stage II??
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Thanks j. Did you go with the Mike Leach flash? I noticed the 714 area code, so I assume they are in SoCal. Did you take it in directly or did you send it in? How long was your down time and what did it cost?
Thanks,
AC
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j
GenIII
7/08/2003
12:06:49
| RE: K/B Optimizer II or Jet Stage II??
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I don't have a Mike Leach flash. I asked them if they would give me a flash when I found out my truck was running lean, but he said he won't do flashes for vehicles with the twin screw s/c's. Yes, they are in socal but I don't know what the turnaround time is. Sorry.
2000 4.7 CC auto, clear corners, Magnaflow catback, Kenne Bell s/c, Aquamist water injection.
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AC 2000 4.7L
Dodge Dakota
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7/10/2003
16:25:25
| RE: K/B Optimizer II or Jet Stage II??
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So. I called the # for the Mike Leach info. It turns out that the shop that used to do it does not anymore. But, there is a guy by the name of Tom who still does, just in his spare time. He says he can adjust speed & rev limiters, fuel/air mixtures...pretty much everything EXCEPT for the shift points. All this for $400. I am not particularly interested in breaking the 100mph barrier, but I do want to adjust the shift points.
So...It looks like the best game in town is the KB Optimizer II. Down time is about the same as the Mike Leach flash and it costs $50 less.
Still haven't had anymore feedback on the SMT6 piggy-back. Anybody? Anybody?
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graphiteRT
R/T
7/10/2003
17:18:19
| RE: K/B Optimizer II or Jet Stage II??
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Hate to tell ya, but I don't think the Optimizer does anything for raising shift points.
Give me the weekend to study some 4.7L stuff and I'll see what I can do for you.
Bob
'01 Graphite CC R/T, MP headers, Magnaflow muffler into 'Cuda style exhaust, M1 2bbl, ported 2.02 R/T heads, custom grind cam, Crower SS rockers, Paxton Novi2000, Boyd's 20s w/Dunlop SP9000s, Featured in April '03 Sport Truck, Viper 4 wheel discs
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AC 2000 4.7L
Dodge Dakota
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7/10/2003
17:33:52
| RE: K/B Optimizer II or Jet Stage II??
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http://www.kennebell.net/accessories/optimizerII/optimizer2.htm
The info on this site says you get "quicker/firmer shifting", which is supposed to increase vehicle acceleration. Maybe this doesn't apply to the PCM on the 2000 4.7L. I'm gonna try to contact the people at Kenne Bell and see what they say.
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Chipster
Dodge Dakota
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7/10/2003
18:57:03
| RE: K/B Optimizer II or Jet Stage II??
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I have a 4.7 Auto with a KB Optimizer ll, it did
not raise the shift points, what it does is make
the shifts firmer. It cuts in half the amount of
travel the tach moves around at the shift
points. They also advance the timing alittle. I
can still get away with using low octane gas
without it pinging, so you know there is more
advance that could have been added.
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AC 2000 4.7L
Dodge Dakota
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7/10/2003
20:34:35
| RE: K/B Optimizer II or Jet Stage II??
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So what is the advantage of raising the shift points? Is that more of a desired mod for engines with more than the standard upgrades like exhaust,intake,t-stat,etc.? When you say low octane, are we talking 87 or 89? Was Kenne Bell willing to work with you on the details of the flash? Sorry for all the questions, but that's how we get educated about what we're driving.
Thanks
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graphiteRT
R/T
7/11/2003
00:28:10
| RE: K/B Optimizer II or Jet Stage II??
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You really shouldn't attempt to "phone it in" with the tune. Very unpredictable results. If the KB tune still runs with 87 or 89, then they clearly left some on the table. Maybe it's the same flash they use for their blowers, which means the timing is quite conservative.
There's really no advantage to bumping the shift points on an otherwise stock truck. You're just making noise at that point because you're well beyond the peak of the TQ and HP curves.
Bob
'01 Graphite CC R/T, MP headers, Magnaflow muffler into 'Cuda style exhaust, M1 2bbl, ported 2.02 R/T heads, custom grind cam, Crower SS rockers, Paxton Novi2000, Boyd's 20s w/Dunlop SP9000s, Featured in April '03 Sport Truck, Viper 4 wheel discs
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AC 2000 4.7L
Dodge Dakota
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7/11/2003
03:08:40
| RE: K/B Optimizer II or Jet Stage II??
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Thanks Bob. I kinda figured that might be the case. If I was going to the extent that you did with your truck, then I'd probably worry more about the shift points. At this point, I'm just looking for improved performance with the few mods that I have in mind.
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Chipster
Dodge Dakota
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7/11/2003
11:42:37
| RE: K/B Optimizer II or Jet Stage II??
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KB will not change their flash. They won't raise
the shift points or raise the speed limiter. It
does not matter what your mods are,
everybody gets the same conservative flash.
On the 4.7, it would be a waste to raise the
shift points. The motor loses power after
4200-4400 rpm and then the tranny shifts.
That is alot of bad stuff happening one right
after the other.
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Kowalski
Dodge Dakota
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7/11/2003
12:49:53
| RE: K/B Optimizer II or Jet Stage II??
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The Leach flash will raise the speed limiter and the parameters for the cruise control. It might be more accurate to say neither flash CAN raise the shift points, I think they are controled elsewhere. Stock shift point of about 5400 will keep you in the meat of the powerband, its not right after 4200 - 4400. Maybe we should start calling this the Fox flash, isn't Tom Fox the one who did it for Leach based on the work he did for DC ?
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graphiteRT
R/T
7/11/2003
13:37:37
| RE: K/B Optimizer II or Jet Stage II??
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I believe on the 4.7L stuff the tranny shifts are handled by a seperate controller. Haven't cracked the book on it yet.
Just an update, new flashes for the 4.7L and HO 4.7L are being mailed today and I should have them early next week.
It's not the Tom Fox flash. To be totally accurate you would call it the Ron Zimmer flash. Ron no longer works with ML from what I'm told.
Bob
'01 Graphite CC R/T, MP headers, Magnaflow muffler into 'Cuda style exhaust, M1 2bbl, ported 2.02 R/T heads, custom grind cam, Crower SS rockers, Paxton Novi2000, Boyd's 20s w/Dunlop SP9000s, Featured in April '03 Sport Truck, Viper 4 wheel discs
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Chipster
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/11/2003
15:11:30
| RE: K/B Optimizer II or Jet Stage II??
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Message:
Kowalski.....Have you looked at a dyno chart of
a 4.7? Depending on what intake manifold you
have (HO or non HO), it gives up between
4200 and 4500 rpm. Check the archives on
this board.
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xplikt
GenIII
7/12/2003
02:56:58
| RE: K/B Optimizer II or Jet Stage II??
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Chipster, we know it starts to go down, that's cause the 4000 range is the peak, but the slope downwards isn't that bad. Shifting at 5200 stock works real well. Once you get those POS cats off there, you can easily take it to 5500.
Shifting at 4400 would be horrible, right when you get into the 4.7Ls power range, you would drop right out of the power band going into the next gear. That's slow.
Then again, I get to shift whenever I want :)
-Mike
http://www.dodgetruckworld.com/xplikt/
2002 2WD RC SLT 4.7L 5spd 3.92 LSD
MBRP Single in/out | straight piped 3rd cat | turndown tip
Full Hotchkis and RAS
Shaved emblems and antennae
150BM fan | removed clutch | HD Radiator
R/T wheels on 275/40/17 Dunlop 9000s
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Seriously
Dodge Dakota
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7/13/2003
11:58:06
| RE: K/B Optimizer II or Jet Stage II??
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The Jets are supposed to work ok on the 4.7 and the 3.9, but you'd still be better off the K/B.
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Tracy H
Dodge Dakota
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7/25/2003
00:15:23
| RE: K/B Optimizer II or Jet Stage II??
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graphiteRT,
Any news to report on those new flashes for the 4.7L and HO 4.7L? Did they come from Ron Zimmer? Does Ron do flashes for the 2000 4.7? Does anyone besides KB now that Mike Leach is done?
~Tracy
'00 4x4 SLT QC 4.7 Auto 3.55LSD *My Dak Pics*
3" PA Body Lift, BFG AT 33x12.5x15 on AE 15x8 149's, Cranked Torsion Bars, Gibson Dual Rear Stainless Catback, Stainless K&N Clone Intake, Removed Rubber Flap, TPS @.78v, Relocated IAT, Powerslot Rotors & Hawk Pads, Autolite 3923s & Stant 180° T-stat, ProComp ES-9000 Shocks, Clear Corners, T-Rex Stainless Nerf Bars ... Ordered Mods: Jeep H.O. Cams, 4.10 gears, Fastman 68mm TB
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graphiteRT
R/T
7/25/2003
00:22:22
| RE: K/B Optimizer II or Jet Stage II??
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Message:
AFAIK Ron has backed away from the Dodge stuff. Probably too busy with the GMs. Tom still does flashes for the earlier models though. These don't come from either of those sources.
Bob
'01 Graphite CC R/T, MP headers, Magnaflow muffler into 'Cuda style exhaust, M1 2bbl, ported 2.02 R/T heads, custom grind cam, Crower SS rockers, Paxton Novi2000, Boyd's 20s w/Dunlop SP9000s, Featured in April '03 Sport Truck, Viper 4 wheel discs
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Tracy H
Dodge Dakota
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7/25/2003
00:28:27
| RE: K/B Optimizer II or Jet Stage II??
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How do they look? Is this something that the average Joe can get? If so, who would do the flash? Do you know how can I contact Tom?
Thanks, ~Tracy
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graphiteRT
R/T
7/25/2003
10:42:19
| RE: K/B Optimizer II or Jet Stage II??
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I haven't tested them personally or asked much about the added performance from the guy who did them(I'm more interested in the 5.9 stuff myself). These are not simple WOT tweaks that most outfits offer you. These are complete fuel and spark remaps at all rpms and different loads in attempt to "touch" all cells within the tables. The process takes several days on the dyno, not some quickie 2 hr deal. All of the flashes that we will offer are much more extensive remaps than what people are used to getting. WOT tweaking is only one small part of the picture, unless you drive your truck with your foot constantly on the floor ;-)
I have a guy locally who did the HO cam and intake swap on his 4.7L Going to play around a little with that, then make them available.
These particular flashes won't be available anywhere else, but when the time comes that we are ready I can flash it for you. This is not something you can buy to do yourself.
Bob
'01 Graphite CC R/T, MP headers, Magnaflow muffler into 'Cuda style exhaust, M1 2bbl, ported 2.02 R/T heads, custom grind cam, Crower SS rockers, Paxton Novi2000, Boyd's 20s w/Dunlop SP9000s, Featured in April '03 Sport Truck, Viper 4 wheel discs
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Tracy H
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/25/2003
13:51:09
| RE: K/B Optimizer II or Jet Stage II??
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That sounds great! Will these flashes be customized to an individuals mods? Any idea what the price will be and how soon they'll be available ... couple weeks, couple months? Are you saying that each flash or the process of tweaking the flashes will take several days? Just wondering what type of turnaround time there will be. How "complete" was the Mike Leach flash compared to the ones that you are creating? Sorry for the 101 questions, just very very interested and want to learn as much as possible. And I do realize this is not something that I'll be doing myself.
Thanks again,
~Tracy
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graphiteRT
R/T
7/26/2003
12:59:45
| RE: K/B Optimizer II or Jet Stage II??
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Yours being a 4.7L the mods are not that big a deal. You only have a limited number of possibilities. No one can take a laundry list of mods, especially if you've changed the cam, and spit out a custom program for you via mail order. It's just not possible(primarily directed at the 5.2 and 5.9s now). You can get close if the tuner has a program on file that was dyno tuned and closely matches your setup, but that's as good as it gets.
Flashes are not tuned on an individual basis for the reasons noted above and because that can only be done with it on a dyno and the tuning software on-site. For a full mapping exercise that is a very expensive proposition.
Turn around is one day or same day in special cases. Availability should be within ~2 weeks, though I am scheduled to do some traveling which could slow that down a little. Pricing and further details will be available at the time we're ready to go, but safe to say it will be cheaper than what people are used to paying for this type of service. Ron did some 4.7 work, but I have no idea about the details or whether he gave those programs to Mike and Tom. In any case they are still limited to '00 and earlier trucks at this time. Best to consult with them if you're going down that path.
Bob
'01 Graphite CC R/T, MP headers, Magnaflow muffler into 'Cuda style exhaust, M1 2bbl, ported 2.02 R/T heads, custom grind cam, Crower SS rockers, Paxton Novi2000, Boyd's 20s w/Dunlop SP9000s, Featured in April '03 Sport Truck, Viper 4 wheel discs
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kowalski
Dodge Dakota
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7/28/2003
17:47:08
| RE: K/B Optimizer II or Jet Stage II??
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Bob - Tom says he puts in 29 degrees of spark advance if that helps you out at all. I'm just back from vacation ( N.H. race then some time at Lake Winnepesaukie) Pulled almost 5000 lb fifth wheel camper with that on 93 octane with no knocking, so you could probably go a little more agressive. Pulling 3500 lb boat on 89 octane gave light knocking on the worst hills. (I know that's not recomended, but heard it should be o.k. with high octane) I also have HO cams and a ported 68 mm TB. I'm very pleased with the mods I have know but it sounds like you could up the ante a little for the guys who just want to go quicker with no towing. Good luck !
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