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Duner
Dodge Dakota
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4/24/2002
13:13:14
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 Subject: Real World....
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Sorry 'bout that. I'm usually hovering all over this forum..... this time I started a thread and then couldn't stay on top of it! hehehe
Others have asked Bernd for an itemized listing of components and have been turned down (trade secrets?). It would be very difficult to itemize every item in the kit unless you already made one. I know exactly what goes into the kit because I have already purchased/installed and worked on every single nut and bolt in the whole system. I'm not having to estimate anything....
Turbo system installation kit components:
Complete documented and illustrated step-by-step instructions.
Garrett T04B turbo.
Copper turbo to manifold gasket.
Oil supply line for turbo.
Oil return line.
Oil return manifold with integral O-ring type gasket.
Deltagate adjustable wastegate.
Copper wastegate gaskets.
Bosch blow-off valve.
Custom fabricated exhaust manifold.
Exhaust gasket.
Crossover pipe.
Turbo to TB intake tube.
Turbo to exhaust - 3" Downtube with O2 bung.
Downtube flange copper gasket.
Wastegate bypass tube.
High volume/hi flow inline fuel pump.
Vortech FMU.
Fuel line assembly.
8 New fuel injectors.
K&N Conical intake air filter.
K&N Blow-off valve filter.
all bolts, hoses, connectors, clamps and wiring necessary for installation.
Nobody but me will have to be the test subject, or suffer from getting the "1st" experimental kit. Everyone that purchases a kit will benefit from my experiences with mine. I have found a couple of things that could have been better placed or done differently to make things easier (both installation and ease of maintenance wise). All of those things will be improved in the kit. The listing above also shows a pump, fuel lines and an FMU. Those items most likely will not be needed or included in the kit. The reason for this is that a fully integrated fuel and timing control system will be used..... but the dyno testing of this system on my truck hasn't been completed yet, and I said I would duplicate my truck's system in my opening post. I suppose this is where I should throw in the disclaimer about how the manufacturer reserves the right to make product updates and improvements in the product? hehehe
Real World Numbers.
I am offering the kit with 5-7 lbs of boost. It's how I drive my truck normally when I'm not trying to spank Lightnings and my RT brothers at the track. It still rocks for performance, but will allow everyone to burn "normal" fuel that's available everywhere. (premium unleaded). I tow my trailer to the dunes with a setting of 5 lbs of boost. There's nothing like having some big old car trailer hooked to your truck and still being able to pull out and pass like it's not back there! hehehe
My truck with 5 lbs of boost goes 13.80s. (timeslip and video)
My truck with 7 lbs of boost goes 13.40s. (timeslip in hand)
My truck with 10 lbs of boost goes 12.70s. (timeslip in hand)
Will everyone else's trucks go that quick? Probably not. It depends on what you've already done. The turbo will increase power based upon how much you are already making... as in a percentage increase. 5 lbs = 35% increase in hp. 7 lbs = 50% increase in hp.... and so on. You can quite easily turn up the wastegate to get more power.... I've tried it at 14 lbs before! But the limiting factor is fuel. You can't turn it up that high unless you have good enough fuel to do so. (Well you can - but it's not recommended!)
I know I haven't answered everyone's questions with this post.... but it's getting kinda long already!
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xplikt
Dodge Dakota
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4/24/2002
13:43:06
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"Complete documented and illustrated step-by-step instructions."
Yey! This is an important thing...heh.
No intercooler though?
Are those FMS injectors?
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Tommithy
Dodge Dakota
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4/24/2002
14:00:49
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Duner, will this kit require the removal of the two precats for us California people??
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xplikt
Dodge Dakota
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4/24/2002
14:14:20
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I wouldn't think so, I couldn't imagine any way it would unless he created a larger dia. exhaust manifold. Too bad they can't modify off the JBA headers...
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GMAN
Dodge Dakota
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4/24/2002
14:27:47
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MY TRUCK IS IN THE SHOP AS OF MONDAY AND I AM INSTALLING A TWIN TURBO SET UP ON MY 4.7. I AM INSTALLING TURBONETIQUES T4 TWIN TURBOS. I'LL LET YOU GUYS KNOW NEXT WEEK HOW IT IS RUNNING. ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS CATCH ME IF YOU CAN.
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NoDak
Dodge Dakota
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4/24/2002
14:42:37
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GMAN
twin turbos would be cool. Are you installing it yourself or is there shop installing it. How much does it cost for that.
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alex
Dodge Dakota
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4/24/2002
14:45:11
| Biaaaaatch.......
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I think GMAN is full o'crap.
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GMAN
Dodge Dakota
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4/24/2002
14:52:16
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I AM HAVING A SHOP PUT IT IN. IT IS A LITTLE PRICEY ITS GOING TO BE ABOUT 5 GRAND FROM PARTS TO LABOR AND READY TO RUN ESTIMATED 10'S WHEN IT IS COMPLETED. THE KIT WAS THE IDEA OF SCI-TECH MOTORSPORTS IN MIAMI. THE GUYS NAME IS BRUCE HE IS A GENEOUS. IF ANYONE IN MIAMI IS LOOKING TO GET SOME EXTRA POWER OUT OF THEIR CAR OR TRUCK LOOK UP SCI-TECH MOTORSPORTS. IT IS GOING TO BE WORTH IT WHEN I PULL UP TO THE LINE AND KICK THE $H!T OUT OF A SUPERCHERGED TRUCK OR MUSTANG I CANT WAIT.
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GMAN
Dodge Dakota
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4/24/2002
14:55:24
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ALEX,
PLEASE TELL ME YOU LIVE IN SOUTH FLORIDA SOMEWHERE SO I CAN PUT MY BLOW-OFF VALVE UP YOUR A$$. THIS GOING TO BE A VERY FAST TRUCK WHAT DO YOU G=HAVE A GO-PED WITH NOS.
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Tom Slick
GenII
4/24/2002
15:24:14
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What is SCI-TECH MOTORSPORTS' website address?
:-)
Later!
Tom "Slick"
96 Dakota Sport 5.2 RC SB
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alex
Dodge Dakota
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4/24/2002
16:04:35
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Okay, G-Man, now that you have a credible source, I sort of believe you. All I can say is, you better be ready to post videos once you have Sci-Tech'd your truck. Don't come singing about running 10's with no proof......
Slick:
SciTech is the shop that Turbo'd that V-6 Dakota on DragTruk.com that ran 11's before he wrapped it around a tree. I think the guy is named Nick Kramer or soemthing like that. Ask Bernd.
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xplikt
Dodge Dakota
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4/24/2002
18:08:57
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He's still on Drag Truck, but I doubt they know about him smashing it up. It wasn't too long ago he did it either. I think Bernd said something about him in a post a few months back. Man I hope you plan on strengthening that engine..no way a stock could hold up (very long anyways) with that force.
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
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4/24/2002
18:23:25
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xplikt - Yes, complete step-by-step documentation. I was a technical illustrator for many years and produced very many technical manuals for both the aerospace industry as well as the military.
The kit as it stands right now does not include an intercooler. To add the cost and complexity of an air/water intercooler for just 5-7 lbs of boost just doesn't make sense. You can always add one if you desire..... but they're pricey.
The new injectors will be Bosch FMS type injectors.
Tommithy - I haven't really looked at any 4.7s with the precats yet..... but I certainly will and get back to everybody.
GMAN - I wish you all the best luck on finding that illusive 10-second timeslip with your truck. Running 10s for 5k will be quite a feat.... especially if you are paying for labor in that price. About how much boost were you planning on? Do you have any other mods planned? Do you have any mods already? According to my handy online performance calculator - you will need about 600 rwhp to get to 10.99. If you are starting out from stock and expecting the twin-turbos to get you there you might be disappointed. To get to 600 rwhp from approximately 200 stock rwhp will require about 45 lbs of boost. That might be a tall order with stock cast pistons..... you might want to ask the guys at Sci-Tech a few more questions.
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Crusty
GenIII
4/24/2002
18:56:28
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Well while we are on the subject...
I am having a shop here in Denver put a 800ci huge block in my truck for 4 grand. It should run high 9's...
GMAN, 5 grand isnt going to give you the fastest DAkota in the country...
BS FLAG IS UP
2002 4x4
Modification Donations Accepted at Paypal.com
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D
Dodge Dakota
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4/24/2002
19:01:33
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GMAN just got schooled!
Duner: does the turbo hook up to the stock 68
mm TB on the 01's? I see you are running
the F & B 72 mm TB.
my ish has pre cats also, would be nice not to
have to mess with them.
how is your engine temp in daily driving, as
most of us use our trucks as daily drivers or
work trucks? Ever since I pulled off my belt
fan, the temp sits in the middle of the guage, I
switched to a 180 stat, would I have to get a
larger than stock elec fan setup to run the
turbo w/o an intercooler....I have heard that the
only downside, and my only concern about
going turbo vs. Super is the heat factor.
Thanx for all the info thus far ;)
All I wann do is be able to outrun my bros SC
S-runner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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kota on 20s
GenIII
4/24/2002
19:08:06
| Real World....
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i cant stop LMAO at GMAN!! hahaha
hey D, are you going to irwindal tomorrow night?
Eric, 98 5.2 5speed, K&N gen II, 50mm TB, 2bbl M-1, 1.7RR's, JBA ciramic headers, carsound cat, dumped gibson, and a lot more
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D
Dodge Dakota
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4/24/2002
19:14:20
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I've got a friggin Trigonometry test on Friday,
and I work all day Thursday, Maybe next week,
I will post for sure.
Hopefully I will have LS by then ; )
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kota on 20s
GenIII
4/24/2002
19:15:47
| Real World....
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cool
Eric, 98 5.2 5speed, K&N gen II, 50mm TB, 2bbl M-1, 1.7RR's, JBA ciramic headers, carsound cat, dumped gibson, and a lot more
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bernd
*GenIII*
4/24/2002
19:17:03
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Duner, I totally agree with ya on the 10 second twin turbo comments. Nick Kramer was running 11.7 1/4 miles with his twin-turbo'd V6...but not with just $5000 invested. BTW: He was running upwards at 18psi but with custom cam and head work as well.
On the kits we are both working...I don't mind a little competition at all. It makes for better performance parts and variations in the type of kits available. We're building our kit (similar as yours) but with a liquid-air intercooler and a few other items (no FMU). We received your private email and definitely will keep all of this on a professional level. We don't want to start making any snide remarks about the other party anyway.
1997 Dodge Dakota SLT - V6
Supercharged/Intercooled @ 10# w/Nitrous
14.55 @ 96.01mph
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
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4/24/2002
19:51:46
| No Snide Remarks! hehehe
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Thanks Bernd. I hope everyone understands that we are competing in the business arena but not on a personal level. I have been supportive of SpeedTweaks in past discussions and will continue to be also. I might not agree with every decision they make on their kits and they certainly won't always agree with mine..... we can't all do everything the same way - that would be boring! This is a friendly competition where everyone wins. I plan on enjoying some adult beverages with both Bernd and Tom in June..... regardless of the status of the turbo kits - OR the outcome of the 4.7 vs 5.9 turbo battle. hehehe
I'm sorry, I hadn't addressed the TB issue. I can build the intake tube to work with either the stock 65/68mm TB or with the F&B Billet TBs. The billet TB isn't included in that price but I can always offer it as an option with the kit.
My truck is a work truck/daily driver and trailer towing machine on weekends. The engine coolant temps are totally uneffected by the turbo during normal daily driving. The engine will warm up the coolant temps during full throttle runs with higher boost. (which is mainly at the track, when I have my centrifugal fan off anyway). That's purely due to the fact that it's making more power which makes more heat. The coolant temp quickly returns to normal once you take your foot out of the throttle. I run a 180 degree thermostat and I will include it in the kit. (I forgot to list it which is an oversight) The underhood temps were higher than stock initially, but some very minor changes took care of that also.
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bernd
*GenIII*
4/24/2002
20:08:18
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Hey Duner...is someone going to bring out the "Green stuff" (some sort of "punch") that Gene was referring to at last years meet?
On the heat issue, seriously consider at least an air-air intercooler to keep the intake charge cooler. (Makes for more power with less detonation problems as well.) The air-air units aren't that expensive and you can modify the ATI bracket to fit without being yanked off on lowered vehicles. (Hint Hint Hint) ;)
Take care man...c'ya in June.
1997 Dodge Dakota SLT - V6
Supercharged/Intercooled @ 10# w/Nitrous
14.55 @ 96.01mph
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Duner
Dodge Dakota
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4/24/2002
20:19:18
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I plan on bring my patented mix of lime flavored gasoline - err I mean Kamikazi mix again this year. I'm sure that's what Gene was referring to. Truly deadly to the mere mortal.
Thanks for the (Hint) hehehe
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bernd
*GenIII*
4/24/2002
20:24:16
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That's the "stuff"!! Bring it! ;)
1997 Dodge Dakota SLT - V6
Supercharged/Intercooled @ 10# w/Nitrous
14.55 @ 96.01mph
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Wiley
Dodge Dakota
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4/25/2002
03:31:23
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I am about 6 months away from buying a new vehicle, and a another Dak (R.I.P) was definitly on the list (which happens to include the Holden SS UTE being brought over as a new Chevy El Camino, but thats for another post LOL). The turbo kits seems fairly thorough so my interest is peaked. My question is would you be willing to sell the kit but without the turbo. I understand the time and money and more TIME you spent on your setup. I am not out make the turbo that comes with the kits seem inadequate or to rob you of potential earnings, its just that i have some "friends" that can supply me with what i need on the turbo and intercooler end. Plus the money that I could save would pay for the intercooler, which i see as an absolute neccesity for a turbo setup even at 5-7 lbs. So if there is anyway we could come to some sort of agreement that would great. We can talk about it privatly if thats what would be better.
Now for the some other technical concerns for when *AHEM* the wastegate get this disease called "CRAZY LEADFOOT A%&HOLE". Has anyone had any success with any sort of return fuel system for the 4.7? Cause as some of you know warm fuel +boost = booom. At 10-12 psi cool fuel would seem kinda nice.
As for anyone thinking about a turbo system I would also recommend getting a good portion of the system Thermal Wrapped. It can really help out the underhood temps. There are a few different makers out. Some are like a tape you wrapped around the piping and some are prefab jackets that slide on. Pay the extra $$ for any type, just get something on it. Most stock NA vehicles dont use the high quality hoses and materials under the hood to suport the high temps associated with turbos.
Wiley
SORRY FOR THE LONG POST
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Dr0p0ff
GenIII
4/25/2002
09:24:23
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Duner, Bernd, anybody... what's in June? I'll be out of this freakin sand box and back to the US in June
Keep On Truckin!
Sgt G
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xplikt
Dodge Dakota
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4/25/2002
10:58:39
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Good deal, I like a set of good directions!
"Has anyone had any success with any sort of return fuel system for the 4.7?"
A couple people have looked/looking into it, but none that I know of. CW I think it was on this forum was one of the people.
1 - 4K and no intercooler.. :(
2 - Can you explain what an FMU is please?
3 - How 'bout a boost guage?
4 - By special request, could you custom fab JBA headers instead of an exhaust manifold? At a
price, of course.
5 - I'd also be interested in going to a 72mm TB also, so there's more than one person who'd want one.
6 - I see crossover pipe listed on there, I am not sure how you set it up, but I have a 2002 and it has pre-cats. As you said above you were going to look into that, so I will leave that to you.
BTW, Competition is good! 'Specially for us..
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SinCity R/T
Dodge Dakota
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4/25/2002
11:34:31
| Re: Turbo Kits
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4.7's are nice and all, but do you guys expect to have a well-tested 5.9 turbo by next year? I wish I could afford some non-N/A action right now but I blew the tax refund on mostly body parts this year, next year will be some sort of boost... Unless I find someplace that will pay a lot for various body fluids...
- Steve
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GMAN
Dodge Dakota
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4/25/2002
12:13:36
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HEY DUNER i am only paying for parts. He is sponsoring me on labor to go to different shows. So if you dont know whats going keep your mouth shut. If you guys know Nick yes they are the same people who worked on his truck he ran 11's with a v-6 automatic so running 10's with a v-8 4.7l 5 spd shouldnt sound to abnormal should it.
If anyone wants to talk to the guys at sci-tech and see what they can do for you the # is 305-254-3023.
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xplikt
Dodge Dakota
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4/25/2002
12:24:51
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That's one LOOONGG drive from Montana.. then again, the one on the way back would be quicker..
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D
Dodge Dakota
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4/25/2002
12:34:09
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you have to be squeezin the juice to get a
turbo'd dakota into the 10's...Duners turbo'd
4.7 runs low 12's with I think 10lbs of boost,
unless you run upwards of 20lbs, you will
never make it, mainly because of the lack of
engine mods out there for these 4.7L's.
and at with that amount of boost, your pistons
are gonna melt...ugly, just ugly.
aftermarket heads, cams, pistons, etc, would
help, but are still on the waiting list for at least
a couple of months. And I dont believe that the
HO cams and heads would make even close
to the amount of power you need to run 10's
a 4.7 dakota in the 10's is VERY abnormal!!!!
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