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Carey
Dodge Dakota
8/28/2001
15:36:23
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 Subject: Lockers?
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Message:
I have done some research and I think lockers for the diff is the way to go. Now, which one? I have a '00 Sport 4.7L, reg. cab, 5spd, 3:90 rear end. I know the air operated ones I want to stay away from, but what else is out there? How much will it cost me (I'll probably do the install myself)? And last, is there different types, if so, what type will best suit my needs? I am looking to stop the one tire from spinning, but I don't want full time posi-traction.
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Dakota
Dodge Dakota
8/28/2001
15:45:18
|  RE: Lockers?
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Message:
Why do you want to stay away from the Air Lockers?? They give you the best all around performance. Its an open diff on the street and locked when you need it..plus it give you an excuse to have on-board air!
With the tradidtional lockers..you will never have the open diff like stock. It will rachet around corners (some more than others, and some you need to be off the gas completely or else it can make abig racket.) As far as installation issues..well its not all that hard. Not easy...but if you have a slightly better than average machanic knowledge than you should be all set.
Price - $300-$400
Just my opinion on things....
-Dakota
Http://dakota2.4mg.com
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Demon-Xanth
Dodge Dakota
8/28/2001
15:49:15
| RE: Lockers?
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Message:
2wd or 4? Generally with 2wd you don't want a locker but you do want a limited slip. Lockers are typically only used with hardcore off roaders. For drag race action an auburn style is the way to go and for general street use a clutch type (aka: posi, tracloc) is perferred. If I understand what you mean by "full time posi" that would be a spool and should NEVER be used on the street as they make turns quite interesting.
A standard detroit locker would be streetable and would yeild good rock crawling abilities.
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Marc 99 R/T
Dodge Dakota
8/28/2001
15:51:15
| RE: Lockers?
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Message:
Before I got my R/T I had a 97 dakota V6. I did extensive research on this very matter. The mopar suregrip & Auburn were two most recommended by a varity of salepeople. If you really want a posi. I have a contact for you. The company offers a lifetime warranty on all drivetrain parts they sell. If I'm not mistaken he was going to sell me an alburn for $269 which is a great price.
If this is truely important to you let me know and I'll find his name & phone # for you.
Something else I should mention, more chances than not your rear-end will make a whining if you don't get the posi installed professionally.
Marc 99 r/t
lots of cool stuff.
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Carey
Dodge Dakota
8/28/2001
16:08:02
| RE: Lockers?
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Message:
My truck is 2wd. I want to stay away from air for the same reason you want it, an onboard compressor. More to go wrong with it and too expensive. Besides, I don't go offroad so I don't have to worry about airing down.
Marc 99 R/T: Don't go to any trouble. You have helped me enough. I am curious about another option. A rear end swap. I know this truck was offered with a limited slip option. Will this solve my problem? Can I replace just the pumkin or have to change the whole rear end?
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Demon-Xanth
Dodge Dakota
8/28/2001
16:21:25
| RE: Lockers?
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Message:
Carey: usually you can just change the gearset or even just the differential portion. If you've ever wanted to change the ratio, now's the time.
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CyberWolf
Dodge Dakota
8/28/2001
17:48:08
|  RE: Lockers?
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Message:
Definately don't go with a locker for street use. They give horrible handling and can sound very violent when they lock and unlock. Lockers are even becoming obsolete with offroaders as most of them are starting to go with spools. Some even say that spools are more streetable than a good locker because you dont get the violent slam upon locking and unlocking. Some believe that slam is more harmfull to drivetrain components than the tire chirp caused by a spool. Your best bet is to go with a Limited Slip or Posi Track, same thing. You will not loose handling with this.
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J. C. Brandon
Dodge Dakota
8/28/2001
19:45:29
| RE: Lockers?
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Message:
"Lockers are even becoming obsolete with offroaders as most of them are starting to go with spools."
That's an interesting statement. What evidence do you have to back it up?
I don't recall ever seeing an advertisement for a spool in an off-road magazine. I don't remember seeing any off-road shop recommend a spool. And in the past year I've been on enough big off-road runs that I've probably seen close to a thousand serious off-road rigs including many, many serious rock crawlers. Never heard anybody mention they were running a spool.
Of course, that's just my experience. Yours might be different.
-J.
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ChiTownDak
Dodge Dakota
8/28/2001
21:26:47
|  RE: Lockers?
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Message:
What about Power Trax No Slip? I thought this gave you the best of both worlds Locked when you needed it and differential when you don't. If some one out there knows the real deal please let me know before I spend good money after bad. The insallation looked like even an idiot like myself could do it.
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DAK2
Gen III
8/28/2001
22:28:19
|  RE: Lockers?
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Message:
I've talked to several people about the PowerTrax No Slip and they said it was the best way to go for street use as it can be fitted to an open rearend the easiest (no clutches,no preloads) and it takes about 1 or 2 hours to install. Also no Special lube is needed.
Chitowndak where in Chitown be u
Y2K DAK 3.9L 5 Spd OS/2 Keeps going&going&going
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ChiTownDak
Dodge Dakota
8/28/2001
23:25:20
| RE: Lockers?
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Message:
I be chillin' in the N.W. Suburbs! The baddest part of Lake County!
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Craig
Dodge Dakota
8/29/2001
08:50:33
| RE: Lockers?
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Message:
I use the Powertrax No-Slip. It is very quiet and behaves almost like a Limited slip with an automatic transmission. About the only time I even here it click is in tight turns or backing up on a parking lot. Off road it is a true locker. I believe with a 5 speed truck you would hear more engagement and dis-engagement. In my opinion, unless you do serious off-roading, I would stick with a limited slip in a 5 speed equipped vehicle.
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CyberWolf
Dodge Dakota
8/29/2001
13:06:19
| RE: Lockers?
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Message:
Evidence? hmmmmm.....
Well, I assume that since you have been on several big offroading trips that you have probably seen me there. Unless you werent on the level 4 & 5 trails. No, I don't wheel with my dak. I have a rig that was built for the sole purpose of wheelin'. If you have really been wheelin' in some of the larger areas and talked to some of the big time guys you would see that most are chunking their lockers to run spools. Believe it or not, there are times when the locker unlocking and locking can affect your ability to get over an obstacle. Also, spools are a lot cheaper. Also, lockers came into the picture when people thought that the tire chirp from a spool could cause a lot of damage. A lot of people are starting to find out that the slam from a locker locking in can do just as much if not more damage. Of course, I am talking about full lockers such as the detroit, not easy lockers. I am also talking about using spools in the rear, not the front. Read the articles in those magazines, don't just look at the pictures. 4-Wheel & Offroad ran a full article on spools a couple months ago. They have also done several comparisons lately along with several other magazines.
A Power-Trax is a lot more streetable and would be a better choice than a full locker. I still don't recommend it as it will cause quicker tire wear and not give as good handling in the rain as a LS would. Yes, Power Trax is cheaper and easier to install. Thats just my opinion.
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J. C. Brandon
Dodge Dakota
8/29/2001
14:15:16
| RE: Lockers?
IP: Logged
Message:
Thanks for the information. Found a spool article on:
http://www.4wheeloffroad.com/
So what happens when you're driving a spooled rig on granite? Which breaks first, the tire contact patch or the axle? Not trying to start an argument; genuinely curious. Seems like an extreme solution to me.
Three of the biggest events I've been on this year were Cal4Wheel's Winter Fun Fest
http://www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/trail/report/ca/winterfunfest01/
and Molina Ghost Run
http://www.mendocino4x4.org/events/molina2001/dayrun1/index.html
and the Clovis Independents' Moonlight Madness:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca2/clovisindependents/
Here in California it's unusual to see a club use a numeric trail-rating system. Sure would be nice if they would; and all use the same system. The Colorado system seems pretty comprehensive to me:
http://www.4x4trails.net/ratings.html
Next time you're up in the Sierra and you see a white 2000 Club Cab Sport with a Snugtop Hi-Liner Shell driven by a guy with a beard and a big smile, c'mon over and say howdy. I've always got an extra beer in the cooler.
cheers,
-J.
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CyberWolf
Dodge Dakota
8/29/2001
14:43:51
| RE: Lockers?
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Message:
My experience has never seen a broken axle from street driving with a spool. Just REAL fast tread wear and lots of noise. I am running a spool in a 9" rear end with 5.13 gears and 39.5" Swamper TSLs in one of our vehicles and have never had a problem.
I know what you mean when you say that you wish everyone used the same rating. Our 4x4 club came up with our own rating system because of this problem. Ours only goes to 6. Our system rates the trail by what kind of equipment is required. A 6 requires 35" aggresive tires minimum. Locked front and rear. Winch. Roll bar. and a lot of other small things. A 6 also guarantees lots of damage to even the most well built rig. The reason we use this rating system is because most of the largest areas in central US use it. I think Moab even uses this system - cant remember.
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Demon-Xanth
Dodge Dakota
8/29/2001
15:14:47
| RE: Lockers?
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Message:
The big downside of spools isn't axles broken to due to load, but breaking the tires loose going around corners. The extra load caused by one wheel going too fast and the other too slow reduces the amount of traction available to make the car turn correctly.
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CyberWolf
Dodge Dakota
8/29/2001
16:51:32
| RE: Lockers?
IP: Logged
Message:
Thats true. We arent talking about using them for street use though. We just kinda got side tracked from the original question. Allthough, some serious offroaders might argue which one is more streetable, locker or spool. We use spools on most of our offroad vehicles but they arent even street legal. That doesnt mean that we dont drive them on the street every now and then though. shhhhhhhh - dont tell anyone.
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J. C. Brandon
Dodge Dakota
8/29/2001
20:04:33
| RE: Lockers?
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Message:
Actually, when I asked about broken axles, I wasn't talking about street use at all. I was thinking specifically about bare, solid granite. We've got lots of it in the Sierra. The stuff has way more traction than asphalt or concrete. Seems like you'd need bomber axles to withstand the stresses accumulated in turns on this stuff.
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CyberWolf
Dodge Dakota
8/30/2001
14:19:45
| RE: Lockers?
IP: Logged
Message:
Of course, I've seen axles break with spools and lockers. But never from just turning. Usually it is attempting a massive obstacle or hill climb. So if your asking whether or not it will break an axle from just turning, I have never heard of such a thing no matter where the 4 wheelin is done. If you are really worried about it, spend the extra money that you saved from buying a spool instead of a locker and install some Strange axles.
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CyberWolf
Dodge Dakota
8/30/2001
14:27:55
| RE: Lockers?
IP: Logged
Message:
Forgot something:
Most people that install the good lockers or a spool do very little if any driving on the street. They also usually have more mods than just the locker or spool. These mods usually include a ford 9", dana 60, 14 bolt, or even stronger. So no, I don't recommend to anyone to put one in their mostly stock dak. Then I would stick with an easy locker likke the Power Trax. I still stand my ground when I say I wouldn't install a Power Trax in a 2wd. I would definately stick with a Ls such as an Auburn.
"I don't recall ever seeing an advertisement for a spool in an off-road magazine. I don't remember seeing any off-road shop recommend a spool" - JC
In regards to the above statement;
If anyone wants to see the difference between a locker, spool, & LS check out the new Randy's Ring & Pinion ad in most 4wd magazines.
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plwhite
Dodge Dakota
8/30/2001
21:40:20
| RE: Lockers?
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Message:
I have a power trax no-slip in my 2000 cc 4.7 5-speed 2wd. it rachets and raises hell everytime you take a sharp corner but its nothing you cant learn to drive around. if you take corners withcare and not under to much power its not that bad.
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Dave
Dodge Dakota
9/04/2001
23:44:06
| RE: Lockers?
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Message:
I have a PowerTrax in my '97 5 speed.It works fine on road.A little tire chirping when making tight turns under power but no excessive tire wear noted.Works teriffic in rainy weather!!! I recommend this approach.Easy install also.
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