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Josh
Dodge Dakota
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11/25/2006
01:05:21
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 Subject: Dyno For Shortys Finally
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Well guys I found a Dyno test done just after the shorty header were installed. I balieve its on a Buick but hey its a dyno and there shortys good gains.http://www.taperformance.com/shorty.htm
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Josh
Dodge Dakota
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11/25/2006
01:25:28
|  RE: Dyno For Shortys Finally
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Found a couple good articles on long tbes and short just thought some folks would like to read.(Mr Kowalski)LOL.http://www.sandersonheaders.com/tech_get_technical.php?osCsid=249356e77df7c22d2979521236f6b5e0http://www.jbaheaders.com/05Tundranew.asp
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Josh
Dodge Dakota
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11/25/2006
01:42:39
| RE: Dyno For Shortys Finally
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Hey guys you will need Adobe to open the dyno results on the Jeep and Tondra The tondra has a 4.7 also.
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Kowalski
GenIII
11/25/2006
07:44:44
|  RE: Dyno For Shortys Finally
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Josh - already aware of the benefits of long tube headers over short tube, if that's what that article says. Didn't bother to check it as your posted link was not clickable. Are you aware that a dyno showing a gain over the stock manifolds of a Buick would not apply to how they could be expected to perform in a different aplication ? That would only be results for that one application, and would not necessarily be comparable to results on another manufacturers motor with different manifolds. That may only mean that Buick's stock exhaust manifolds may not be as good as those on our 4.7's.
You should also be aware that the 4.7 in a Tundra is made by Toyota - it a totally different design than the mopar 4.7, with different manifolds. In fact pretty much everything about that motor is different - no parts in common. I've said it before, and looks like it's worth saying again - I've never seen a dyno showing decent gains to our 4.7 by simply changing to short tube headers - our manifolds are reputed to flow within 2% of them. Those dynoing decent gains for the 4.7 with exhaust mods have all replaced the restictive y-pipe. If anyone has less misleading dyno results that apply specifically to our 4.7, I would love to see it posted. Not saying that's impossible; but I haven't seen it in many years on this site. Anyone have results like that ?
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Josh
Dodge Dakota
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11/25/2006
11:17:00
| RE: Dyno For Shortys Finally
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Im not trying to argue.I have the stock intake of my trock sitting in A box in th ebasement and it looks idennticle to the one of that toyota 4.7 just humor me and go read the article on that tundra.And the article that says Lets Get Tecnical.That article explain the disadvantages to Between the both of them.It also explain long tube headers on A vehicle with Mufflers Is bassically no gain over shorties hate to burst everyones bubble but it talks sense.Without the mufflers they are a cinssiderable gain over shorties with the mufflers of any sort they are about 3 to 4 horse more.Then the 17 t0 20 you get out of shorties.
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Kowalski
GenIII
11/25/2006
17:21:59
|  RE: Dyno For Shortys Finally
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Not trying to argue either; but your thinking the Toyota intake looks like ours, and pointing out that both have the same displacement before makes me think you might not apreciate the differences in these motors. Why would that even matter anyway, I thought this was a discussion of exhaust manifolds ? And what makes you think you would get 17 to 20 hp gains putting shorties on a 4.7 - no one has ever dynoed a gain like that with just that mod on our 4.7's !
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Josh
Dodge Dakota
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11/25/2006
18:08:10
| RE: Dyno For Shortys Finally
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Ok I wont say anything else about it but they sure got a 26 horspower gain from the catback and the Shorty headers on that toyota.And iam sure our trucks put out a few more ponies and torgue than the toyota 4.7 and do apprutiate my truck.There dynoe sheet is right there on that page.So why couldnt a dodge 4.7 get those gains also.were not running that much more torque or HP THAN THE TOYOTA 4.7s stock.I will drop the Subject and will wright that magazine and ask them to Dyno and test a Dokota.See what they say.
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Josh
Dodge Dakota
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11/25/2006
19:36:16
| RE: Dyno For Shortys Finally
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Iam finding all of these gains on diff types of trucks.I think its kinda superficial to say they all get the gains but dodge or the 4.7 the ford guys say there intakes flow almost 2percent from the headers.Im tired of hearing that lamb line this proves there science wrong. Whole video of installation and the dyno.Gibson on the 5.4 Ford motor.http://fordtruckworld.tenmagazines.com/tenArticle.asp?aid=2792&sid=2
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Kowalski
GenIII
11/26/2006
09:00:11
| RE: Dyno For Shortys Finally
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This is why Josh - while many motors respond similarly to similar mods, some will always respond more or less because of differences in design from manufacturer to manufacturer. If a DC 4.7 has a better stock exhaust manifold design than a Toyota 4.7, it simply won't see the same gains from the shorty headers. Not a lame line at all (I think that's what you meant by "lamb line") !
Also, your subject line for this post is very misleading - we still haven't seen anyone with decent power gains dynoed for our 4.7's posted from just a switch to shorty headers...
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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daddio
Dodge Dakota
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11/26/2006
09:54:10
| RE: Dyno For Shortys Finally
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it's not only different manufacturers exhaust manifold that would make a difference. just the shear difference in engine design would make a comparison impossible.
a 350 chebby engine will respond differently to the same exhaust mods than a 350 buick or 351 ford or 360 dodge.
different head design, stroke, bore, cam profile. it all comes into play. each engine design will have it's own characteristics.
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Josh Fan
Dodge Dakota
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11/27/2006
06:53:50
| RE: Dyno For Shortys Finally
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There is a conspiracy among header manufacturers. They don't want Dodge owners to buy thier product. That's why they won't publish dyno tests on the 4.7.
Listen to Josh, I think he has even put 5.9 y-pipe on his 4.7. More huge gains.
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Josh
Dodge Dakota
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11/27/2006
10:20:33
| RE: Dyno For Shortys Finally
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Thank you Josh fan LOL.I just dont get it a fricken engine is a engine and theres lots of them out there all diffrent in ways but all pretty much the same in ways.And I RESPECT how much expierience and KNOWLEDGE some folks have. But there comes a point to were it seems they have just said this so much they start balieving themselves.SO I have talked to two of my CLOSE FRIENDS YESTERDAY THAT WORK FOR CHRYSLER wich is 10 min away from us. (we live in Detroit) They both live on same block as me. Both work in the tool and dye department.TOM ONE OF THE FELLAS BROTHER IS A INGENIER FOR CHRYSLER.They all say the intake I have in my box in my basement is restricted and nothing special about them sorry to break so many hearts.I mentioned that some guys on this forum said they flow 2 perscent diff then Short headers (They Laughed at me because I listen to yoU!!!They said if theres proof that they only run 2% less then show us the dyno for that and quit kidding yourselves and balieving every thing you read or see unless you do it yourself ,.The dodge dokota is a truck just like the fords that gain just like the chevys that gain just like the Toyotas that gain FROM HEADERS.(There WORDS )Well anyway I leaned yesterday
that the best minds and expience this forum has is dead wrong. So I guess the site is good for help in some ways but no madder what you got to the horses mouth if you want facts learn on your own.Next Saturday Night Tom and Walt both niebors both Chrysler employees are putting my dakota back to stock everything.Including (Y Pipe)It will be put back together one mod at a time and will be dynod after each mod.They are doing this for absolutley nothing(BUT TO PROVE LOTS WRONG) and from the luxaury of Diamond Chryslers Shop and dyno garage. ( and case of beer and me giving up one of my saturday nights)I think alot of folks will be dissopointed one week from now.Iam going with the advice on the Ho cams wich will be put in also the following week by the same folks they do agree about the gains from the cam.
(They say the throttle body will be about as worthless as the KN i have lol)LOL BUT hate to burst that bubble again they said i will not gain as much from the cam as I did the exhaust seystem!! BEFORE YOU ASK KOWALSKI EVERY THING FROM THE Y PIPE TO THE
KN WILL BE DYNOD AND POSTED ON THIS SITE.
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kowalski
GenIII
11/27/2006
11:48:40
| RE: Dyno For Shortys Finally
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Josh - you seem to be taking this way to personally, the points I've made are valid (wether you understand them or not) and were not meant as a personal attack on you. However, we have seen many false and misleading claims made over the years, and I do my best to try to sort them out. I took a while evaluating many claims before decicing on the mods I did, and it was worth it - they work well. You don't see a fancy intake on my truck ,which has been shown on a dyno to primarily give small gains at higher revs; nor do you see the tornado contraption or a throttle body spacer. I hope you understand that I've never said it was impossible that we could see gains from shorty headers; only that it was suspect because the only decent exhaust mod gains we've seen alsways included replacing the y-pipe, and we've heard the factory exhaust manifolds for this motor flow within 2% of headers. It is possible that is wrong, but no one's shown that yet. If the shorty headers could actually be shown to give a decent gain by themselves on a 4.7, I'd certainly consider them for myself in fact - but been looking for this proof for quite some time, and it hasn't been forthcoming. Hopefully the first mod tested will be the shorty headers by themselves, with the factory y-pipe in place - I'm sure many would be interested in those results. Perhaps you could print this thread out to show to your freinds at DC as hopefully they have a better understanding of the possible differences between designs, as daddio has also chimed in on. Good luck - I look forward to seeing the results of the testing.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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Josh
Dodge Dakota
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11/27/2006
12:53:56
| RE: Dyno For Shortys Finally
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I didnt wake up and say im taiking my truck apart next week to prove Mr Kowlaski wrong.This just fell in my lap because I was venting to my neibors about the work I had done on my tuck and didnt know the facts.(KICKING MYSELF)And they reinsured me my efforts and mods did pump it up considerably.I mentioned the 2% thing and thats how it got started.I Do not have a printer but Walt will be over tonight for Dinner.(Least I Can Do)He said he is interested to read some of the post on what we think of our trucks.
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Josh
Dodge Dakota
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11/27/2006
13:03:33
| RE: Dyno For Shortys Finally
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sorry for the bad writing (taiking)(Kowlaski)Fingers are faster then brain.
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Josh Fan
Dodge Dakota
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11/27/2006
13:14:23
| RE: Dyno For Shortys Finally
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"The dodge dokota is a truck just like the fords that gain just like the chevys that gain just like the Toyotas that gain FROM HEADERS.(There WORDS )Well anyway I leaned yesterday "
That's right, all exhaust manifolds are created equal by the manufacturers and you can expect equal gains when replacing them with headers. Header manufacturers are really wasting their time with the dyno sessions because they will all yeild the same results.
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What ?
Dodge Dakota
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11/27/2006
18:04:35
|  RE: Dyno For Shortys Finally Rumored To Be Coming
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Josh fan - if your truck is just like a Ford or Chevy, then why aren't you driving a Ford or Chevy ? Like Kowalski and daddio have already pointed out, there are differences from manufacturer to manufacturer and design to design. Sometimes we can make some generalizations on what to expect from specific mods, but there are always exceptions.
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Detroit man
Dodge Dakota
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11/27/2006
23:11:23
| RE: Dyno For Shortys Finally
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Well What!!! I dont think there is as much diffrence as folks asume.Think about it 4 holes going into one long tube intantly. All chambers coliding before they exit down the ehxaust and threw there course.And thats exactly what the 4.7 headers do including the ford ,chevy and toyota.Looking at that manifild in that toyota dyno chart is like looking in a mirror at Joshes old intake of the 2003 4.7.All the same commin sense fellas.Iam 51 Years old lived in detroit michigan all my life.At 21 I Got my first job at the (Big Three) Ford, Gm, Diomand Chrystler At the Wixom Michigan FORD plant.Worked there 20 years In the cast and die plant.At 41 I continued my occupation With Diamond Chrysler.Still there been there 10 years now this year. Ive seen everything from the ash tray to the cylinder blocks Of all three corperations as I have friends that work for Gm.Basically Alot of our basics are the SAME in every way.And yes the manifolds are the Basics SORRY.So think obout this guys Why havnt yall seen a dyno from Dodge on the 4.7 Ill tell you why cause they dont wont you to this motor is suppossed to be mysterius.You guys have to dyno. Who you think sponsors those dynose in thoes high society truck and car Magazines its not you guys Its the outomakers and Basic facts Dodge is banking on the 4.7 to pull them out of there slump they have been in since the old hemis ran dry.If its up to them there wont be any dynos out there for These Intakes.I enjoyed reading all the post on this site awsome site good help here.As we told Josh last night we will do are best to show yall its about 15% Better flow rate over stock Intake easy!You are all proud owners of these trucks and trust me you should be for they (Dodge)makes sure theyer all perfect they strive on making sure we are doing our jobs to the best of our abillities everyday. Stay proud!Oh and by the way fellas I will retire next year with 30 years yes thats right they are closer then yall think.
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What ?
Dodge Dakota
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11/28/2006
07:08:11
| RE: Dyno For Shortys Finally
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Sure they all look pretty similar, but there can be subtle differences, someone who I see has never worked in engineering might not notice. Who's Diamond Chrysler, a dealership ? My truck was built by Daimler Chrysler. SORRY back at you; your dyno info is wrong. DC published sales literature including full dyno graphs of their motor's torque and horsepower characteristics. So much for the conspiracy theorists !
BTW, it was the US government who bailed out Lee Iacocca's Chrysler long after the 426 hemis were gone; and it is the new hemi that Chrysler is banking on now in all there advertising, as the 4.7 design is more expensive to build and doesn't come with the flashy hype.
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kowalski
GenIII
11/28/2006
09:16:02
| RE: Dyno For Shortys Finally ?
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The way testing works, is you're supposed to do the testing first; and then evaluate the results. Sounds like you guys have already come up with your conclusion, and may now test to try to prove it. I hope you plan to post dyno graphs of your results; and I hope we can trust you - your methodology is pretty screwy. Instead of doing your best to show us the results you expect, why don't you do your best to do a fair evaluation ? Why don't you just knock off the BS until you can come up with the proof you claimed in the title of this post ?
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
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Josh
Dodge Dakota
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11/28/2006
13:29:13
| RE: Dyno For Shortys Finally
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Iam just as curious as anybody else.Regardless the way they come out they will be honestly posted on this site.Either way it works out im excited to do this and see what my dollar got me. All the help I have received from this site I feel like I owe everyone thats helped me.These are all my mods starting with the shorties first that we are dynoing if we can do it in one night.Gibson shorties By themselves,Y pipes and cat and catback will all be one Dyno.So we dont take to much time and cam move on.Then the Kn Intake, then the superchip.Thats 4 Dynos.Did you read the HO cams post the dude said he emailed mopar and they said you wont get much at all 2003 and up.Graphite said that explains alot to him.So I dont think I will install the ho cams and dont have the dough for the 206s so crap.Definitly dont have it for the gears so I guess what I got is what I got.
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