| From | Message |
bludak
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/14/2004
15:30:47
|
 Subject: Air intakes
IP: Logged
Message:
Can anybody really provide me with any hard evidence that any "cold" air intake gives any performance boost? I mean let's face it, the air would have to be significantly cooler to give any kind of density change to have the effect claimed by these manufacturers. It may give a more free flowing air path than some stock set ups, but my 99 5.2 really has a very unrestrictive air path. it is an air box, a 3" tube and an air hat. The same thing that some of these companies are offering for $150 or more. I just want to know if this mod is really worth anything more than lound intake sound and bragging.
|
Ken
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/14/2004
16:54:58
|  RE: Air intakes
IP: Logged
Message:
ABSOLUTELY!
When I went to a CAI setup, I INSTANTLY saw a 2mpg jump on highway with my 97 CC SLT 5.2L. I went from 16.5 MPG highway to 18.5 MPG, this done on similiar trips that is over 400 miles that I use to do couple of times a year. You will also notice a stronger pull from 3000 RPM to redline (maybe even sooner, 2500 RPM).
See, here's the thing, that intake is in fact restrictive, as well as the filter. The engine is having to work to suck in that air. With a good CAI setup, the air is being pushed into the engine, so the engine isn't having to work to suck it in. That in itself eliminates a good bit of HP loss from the engine having to do more work. Take the MPG into account, the intake will pay for itself in 10-20K miles, depending on driving habits. Now you're also getting more air into your intake, your PCM picks up on that (more air aka air density increases to a point), dumps in more fuel, ya got more HP. Just look at where the 5.2 gets its air from, the fender well, not exactly easy for air to flow into there. You can also make a homebrew intake if you want, just have it come out of the airhat, do like a 45 deg elbow, etc to get it coming forward, have it come to the front of the engine bay, and stick a K&N Cone on the end. Out of all of the mods I have done (M-1 intake, headers, PCM, Cat back, high-flow cat, TB, ignition system, etc), the air-intake by far gave me the best gains both in MPG and HP. Just make sure you clean and oil it occasionally :-)
|
bludak
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/14/2004
17:10:10
| RE: Air intakes
IP: Logged
Message:
Ok...first of all, not to fight with you, but how in the world can you say that a cold air intake pushes the air into the TB?! Nothing short of a turbo or supercharger can "push" air into the intake. Next, more air is not even close to the same thing as air density. Air density refers to the weight, and thus the number of molecules, of air in a given space. Air must be pretty cold to make the molecules come closer together and therefore allow more oxygen into the same volume of air. This increase in oxygen is the only way to increase the amout of fuel, and thus HP. Also, air does not have to "flow" into the fender area to provide air to the engine. There is no NA engine on earth that can suck enough air fast enough to create a vacuum in an open air space, which is the only thing that would keep the engine from getting enough air from that area of the fender.
|
Kowalski
GenIII
7/14/2004
17:40:10
|  RE: Air intakes
IP: Logged
Message:
While a good CAI can indeed be less restrictive than the stock set up, there's no way in hell it can actually push air into the engine. There is, however, something short of a turbo or blower set up that can. Some of the old ram air hoods actually did give a little positive pressure. There is a layer of air about an inch thick over the hood that is fairly still, called the boundary layer. the scoops that worked were the old "six pack" style that stood above this layer. The shaker style hoods are largely cosmetic because of this effect.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
|
bludak
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/14/2004
17:46:27
| RE: Air intakes
IP: Logged
Message:
Kowalski, I agree with you about the positive pressure from old style ram air or cowl induction hoods. Wasn't really thinking about old school when I made that statement, good catch. I appreciate the back up though, I mean I can't argue that a more free flowing system both in and out, will create more horsepower, but it has nothing to do with the temperature of the air that you can get just driving around under normal conditions. Now in the winter, a whole different story, then you can get more dense air because there is a large enough temperature difference. I even admit that my dak pulls harder in cold weather! So the bottom line is, homemade or bought, it just needs to be free flowing. And if you ask me that costs about $60 (filter and pvc) not $200!
|
Ken
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/14/2004
17:52:26
| RE: Air intakes
IP: Logged
Message:
While it's not much, the motion of the truck moving forward is pushing air into the intake. What I'm trying to say is you're able to create a higher volume of air flowing in. When I'm referring to the pushing, I mean that the engine itself cannot get enough air, and is working to suck in the air. With a CAI, it gets enough air so it doesn't have to try to suck it in. Even if I'm wrong on all accounts of the air flow, etc, the CAI is much less restrictive, and I've got the numbers to prove that the CAI gave more HP and MPG. Otherwise, why is it essentially the first mod that anybody will do? Answer: it's cheap, best hp/$, and it works!
|
Kowalski
GenIII
7/14/2004
17:53:49
| RE: Air intakes
IP: Logged
Message:
That's why a lot of the guys here have gone with a cheaper "home brew" intake. It is important to pick up outside air rather than the hotter, less dense underhood air though.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way
|
Ken
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/14/2004
17:55:31
| RE: Air intakes
IP: Logged
Message:
True, but they usually don't just toss together some PVC and sell it (though, some do). The higher priced ones tend to include the air hat, etc, and make it nice looking. I mean, PVC doesn't exactly look great. But if money is a concern, and appearance isn't, make it out of PVC.
|
prple-gaseatr
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/14/2004
18:17:34
| RE: Air intakes
IP: Logged
Message:
i made some pretty good ones out of pvc, another thing i am about to try, (which means im almost done,) is a stock airbox with a kn filter with a removed scoop from the fenderwell, and an attached 3" flex tube inserted into the airbox hole and the hose leading up to the side of the radiator through the rubber---cold air.
|
Mr. Einstien
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/14/2004
19:42:36
| RE: Air intakes
IP: Logged
Message:
bludak, shut the hell up!
your first post/question is "Can anybody really provide me with any hard evidence that any "cold" air intake gives any performance boost?
Then you write in your 2nd post---> Air density refers to the weight, and thus the number of molecules, of air in a given space. Air must be pretty cold to make the molecules come closer together and therefore allow more oxygen into the same volume of air. This increase in oxygen is the only way to increase the amout of fuel, and thus HP.
Your 3rd post contains---> I agree with you about the positive pressure from old style ram air or cowl induction hoods.
If you had half a brain and knew what the hell you're talking about, you could have answered your own STUPID question without debating the board. Let me answer that question without going into flowdynamics and aerodymics. YES, it works!
|
Dr Dak
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/15/2004
03:42:22
| RE: Air intakes
IP: Logged
Message:
"Einstien"? Forget your dictionary as well as your medication again?
|
bludak
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/15/2004
09:15:54
| RE: Air intakes
IP: Logged
Message:
Einstein...I will not stoop to your level of pediatric intelligence, but I will say, that when you have an advanced degree in cell and molecular biology with a double minor in chemisty and physics, and can take seperate molecules and make DNA (as I can) then you can try and tell me to shut up! Until then, suck my root beyotch!
I knew the answer to my question, however I am open minded enough to change my opinions based on evidence to the contrary. So if someone other than the company that makes these intakes can tell me that "yeah, I got 12 HP off of Brand X intake" then I will consider that brand.
Ken...
Again I must dispute the fact that the air is "pushed" into the intake. All engines suck in air due to the vacuum that is created during the intake stroke of the pistons. While creating more available air is important you can never get to a point, through natural aspiration, that the engine is not sucking.
You all may think that I am simply argumentative, but I just don't think it is right for people to spread unsubstantiated knowledge to people that will believe it and spend $200 of their hard earned money on something that is not needed.
|
Mr. Einstien
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/15/2004
09:27:48
| RE: Air intakes
IP: Logged
Message:
*shakes head in wonder*
|
hypocrite
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/15/2004
09:53:04
| RE: Air intakes
IP: Logged
Message:
"I will not stoop to your level of pediatric intelligence, but I will say, that when you have an advanced degree in cell and molecular biology with a double minor in chemisty and physics, and can take seperate molecules and make DNA (as I can) then you can try and tell me to shut up! Until then, suck my root beyotch."
Excuse me but isn't suck my root beyotch stooping pretty low?
|
bludak
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/15/2004
09:59:56
| RE: Air intakes
IP: Logged
Message:
hypocrite...apparently you have no sense of humor. I was just saying that to set him up for the jab...
Lighten up...it's all just fun and games
|
Dyno-might
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/15/2004
10:06:00
| RE: Air intakes
IP: Logged
Message:
Doesnt anyone have Dyno stats, before and after a CAI install, to shut these children up??
Please post!!
|
bludak
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/15/2004
10:17:46
| RE: Air intakes
IP: Logged
Message:
Dyno-Might...
That is all I wanted to begin with. But it sure is fun to get people all worked up with a few well placed words!
|
daffydak
GenIII
7/15/2004
10:55:29
| RE: Air intakes
IP: Logged
Message:
this may help... its from www.360airintakez.com.
its their "power shot" CAI kit.. this is a dyno sheet that shows 10HP and 10TQ (4.7L) they have kits for the 5.2/5.9 as well.
http://www.360airintakez.com/images/47dynochart(1).gif
hope this helps
Dan
MOPAR=More Power!!
|
bludak
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/15/2004
11:08:20
| RE: Air intakes
IP: Logged
Message:
Thanks Dan...
|
hypocrite
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/15/2004
11:17:39
| RE: Air intakes
IP: Logged
Message:
I have a sense of humor, I'm just not an arguing jerk.
|
JES
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
7/15/2004
11:51:40
| RE: Air intakes
IP: Logged
Message:
A friend of mine put a CAI on his 4.7 '02 DAK last year. Did dyno runs before and after ... no appreciable difference. I'll get in touch with him to see if he has the cut sheets on the intake and dyno runs.
Eric - http://photos.yahoo.com/jes_96
|
| | P 1 Next Page>> |
