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Mar
Dodge Dakota
7/30/2001
22:12:05
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 Subject: RE: Oil recommendations...
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What a d**k LOL.
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ChemEngr
Dodge Dakota
7/30/2001
22:39:39
|  RE: Oil recommendations...
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Message:
Mar, I have to agree with Rascal... I really don't know where you get your information from. They are highly inaccurate. As far as the oil tests, I conducted those with my coworkers. I have a couple of degrees in chemistry and my Master's work was on fluid dynamics. Mobil 1 is definitely the top in my book. No doubt, AMSoil is also very good, as I stated before. But Castrol Syntec? That is a joke. It score very poorly, if not the worst compared to other top selling synthetic oils.
The truth is, don't believe the stuff you read and from what is painted on a nascar. Those are sponsors, they pay to have their names on it.
I don't want to waste my time on you... Believe whatever you want, and keep putting that Castrol stuff in cars... And I wish you the best of the luck...
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Rascal
Dodge Dakota
7/30/2001
22:42:36
| RE: Oil recommendations...
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ChemEngr, I could not say it any better and I agree with you. I am a retired Harley mechanic and its easy to see that this nimrod does not have a clue, and is not worth anymore of my screen space, thus, this is my last post on this subject with him.
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Mar
Dodge Dakota
7/30/2001
23:49:25
| RE: Oil recommendations...
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Message:
Both of you are just stuck on a brand and cant get over the fact that Mobil 1 isnt the best. ChemEngr Dont waste your time you obvously wasted enough studying and doing your own private test with your co workers. I build preformance engines for a living now i am into building the parts. I studied Metallurgy so i know about engine wear and how oil stands up. I drag race cars for a hobby and i know that whats on the side of a car is not whats in it. I tried to tell rascal that. I also know that mobil one will break down and turn into goo when under extreme heat and pressure and when you pull the dipstick it smells burnt and it is caked on to the dipstick. So i dont care weather mobil one is nicer to look at or to feel or if it can hold up to a flame on a frying pan because out hear in the real world all we need is an oil to condition and keep are car running.
WHat is the best oil. Simple Amzoil is the absolute best oil for your car you will pay for it though, Test after test and even the famous scratch test which i have done on a lot of engines proves this. But Castrol is almost as good and as the scratch test proved is better for your engine then mobil 1. I and anyone that knows anything about cars knows that at the track castrol is the oil of choice.
OH and rascal i think i heard you say you live in atlanta. What is the temp there pretty warm isnt it. Well i live in canada where in the summer it is as hot as what you have and in the winter it can go to -30c. Have you ever tryed to crank over an engine at -30. 10w30 castrol will crank like 5w30 moble 1 No lie. So where you live you might be able to get away with the crap you put your car through but i am going to rely on what i see works and what most experts recommend and all i ever hear about mobil 1 is that its a rip of.
You have to learn how to disagree with out getting to be a di#k I will put castrol in my truck and it already has more miles then yours ever will. The point is that there is prefrence and there is proof and you have to learn that just because the bottle and commercials look great and maybe the fact that they paid some companies to through there oil in high end cars doesn't mean its the best stuff on earth.
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sandman
Dodge Dakota
7/31/2001
19:06:24
| RE: Oil recommendations...
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Rascal most teams do not use all of the products that sponser them. Many teams were useing synthetic oils in their engines when their oil sponsors did not make a synthetic oil. You do not think that the Kendale car was useing Dinosar juice in it's Formula one car running 14,000 RPM's before it had a synthic or a parent company that made a synthetic do you. Of course they lie. They use the best they can get and if it happens to be a product that their sponsors make then that is great. Some teams use custom made synthetics. Mazda was one team that had custom synthetic oil made for their race teams in the IMSA GT series. I am curently doing some testing and I invite everyone to use one brand of oil synthetic oil for your normal milage or time frame and have it tested and post the ppm results from the test then try a different brand and do the same. I am currently testing penzoil for 5000 miles and then I will use Mobile one 10w30 for 5000 miles. I am useing the mobile one oil filter. If we all do this it will spread the cost out amoungst the group and it will be real world testing. Mobile one does make a good product but I doubt it is the best. I especial think this would prove to be the case with extended drain useage. Only one way to find out!!!
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Mar
Dodge Dakota
8/01/2001
00:30:47
| RE: Oil recommendations...
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Ok sandman
I use Castrol syntec with a mopar filter and have done so since the beginning in my 1999 5.9. 205030 miles so far and it runs like a clock.
Friend with 1985 ram slant 6 3.7L over 1 million miles on castrol GTX and starts better then my 5.9.
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o.k.
Dodge Dakota
8/01/2001
23:53:25
| RE: Oil recommendations...
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205000 miles in 2 years!? yea right.
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Mar
Dodge Dakota
8/02/2001
09:49:45
| RE: Oil recommendations...
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Cross canada a lot. Very easy to put on miles like that where i live. Every trip is like 70 mi.
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Rascal
Dodge Dakota
8/02/2001
13:10:03
| RE: Oil recommendations...
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Mar, you are one full of sh** dude...you studied mettalury, oils, filters, and invented the internet...what a crock...man, you are one sicko..no wonder you are Canadian...LOL
What a goof
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o.k.-2
Dodge Dakota
8/02/2001
20:15:13
| RE: Oil recommendations...
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lets see 70x365=25550. ????????
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bjlindsey
Gen III
8/05/2001
12:41:34
| RE: Oil recommendations...
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Message:
interesting oil comparison using New York city taxis at this link http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/oil.html#ENG
you'll have to scroll down a bit.
Any thoughts?
Thanks
'01 QC 4x4 5.9L 3.92 LSD K&N FIPK Clone Truck Tec bed cover
www.FreeGasForYou.com
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Dakota 2 Time
Dodge Dakota
8/05/2001
14:06:01
| RE: Oil recommendations...
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Message:
Virtually any synthetic has the potential to be better than dino. The synth with hold up to heat better and will flow better when cold.
As to the differences between the different synth, well, there I think you are splitting hairs. As to Castrol, this is one of the hydro-cracked oils which basically is a dino processed a little differently to inprove certain charateristics. There isn't a problem with it but to sell it at the same price as a "true" synth is outragous. Hydro-cracked oils are supposed to be a cheaper alternative to trus synth. Castrol is overcharging big time. Hydro-cracked oils should sell in the 2 buck a quart range.
Mar, using the Castrol is no better or worse than anything else but dump the mopar filters. Mopar filters are Fram and Fram these days is making junk. The end plates are cardboard and the valves are weak. Use a Puralator Pure One filter or almost anything else. Stay away from any filter made by Fram.
BTW, the scratch tests is only one of many needed to determine just how well an oil performs. I wouldn't put any weight in only a single test.
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TigerDak
Dodge Dakota
8/05/2001
14:55:31
| RE: Oil recommendations...
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Well I'm not an expert on all of this oil stuff, but I will make an attempt to say something. It seems that there are two types of oil believers: First the older crowd, who are likely to be of old school and actually tend to know something about oil, its properties, and its benefits and weaknesses. They are less likely to accept new technologies and advances in oils. Second, there are the younger crowd of recent date, that believe the claims of the newer oil manufactuers, are more likely to see new advances in oil technologies, and are not of the "Old School" education. These people are usually prone to seeing and believing synthetic oil claims and their strengths.
Who is right? Its hard to say. I believe that oil has and can change over the years, from dino oils to synthetic oils. I especially believe that some oils are made well for daily drivers, and some other oils are made for racing -- obviously two different types of driving! So in our discussion of oils, it would probably save some arguement to determine "Are we talking about racing, or are we talking about daily driving?" That would help narrow down this discussion.
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Kevin Dinwidd
Dodge Dakota
8/07/2001
02:32:23
| RE: Oil recommendations...
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OK, Maybe I can help. I'm a Certified Lubrication Specialist by the STLE (Society of Tribologists and Lubrication Engineers) I've worked in the oil industry for over 22 years. I'm a Member of the STLE. I'd be glad to give my expert opinion on oils. Just start asking.
Sincerely,
Kevin Dinwiddie
Tribologist
Certified Lubrication Specialist
Member STLE
e-mail dinwiddiek@earthlink.net
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Wayne
Dodge Dakota
8/07/2001
03:53:10
| RE: Oil recommendations...
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Message:
First question to Kevin: Is MAR an (a)idiot, (b) liar, (c) trouble maker, (d) bionic man?
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Mar
Dodge Dakota
8/07/2001
10:20:12
| RE: Oil recommendations...
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Message:
Kevin What do you put in your car and what is the best test to prove that a oil brand is better for our trucks.
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Mar
Dodge Dakota
8/07/2001
10:21:58
| RE: Oil recommendations...
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Message:
Wayne the answer is. ( E ) None of the above.
Where the hell did you come from.
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Kevin Dinwidd
Dodge Dakota
8/07/2001
11:31:53
| RE: Oil recommendations...
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Message:
Wayne, I did not come here to answer questions like the ones you asked about Mar. It sounds as if you and he have a tug of war going on and I'm not putting myself in the middle, sorrry.
Mar I use the Lubrication Engineers (LE) #8130 10w-30 simi synthetic engine oil.
There is no one best test. First I look at the specs to weed out the low quality oils. Finding the best of the high quality oils is the hard part. Knowing the best most accurate test methods makes it even harder. For instance the 4-ball test method for wear or EP (2 different tests) is a cheep easy to run test method, but not as accurate as the Falex test. Both are ASTM tests but most people use the 4-ball because of the cost of performing the test. The Falex however is more accurate. Keep in mind that we are talking about engine oils here if we were talking about gear oils then a different test would be better. I mentioned the Falex and 4-ball wear and EP tests because wear is the we look at the most. The ASTM TFOUT test is the next test I look at. Take the oils that have the lowest wear rates then look at those same oils for oxidation resistance on the TFOUT test. For instance if an oil has a 12 on the wear test (lower is better), but has a 800 on the TFOUT oxidation test then the oil is said to have higher wear as compared to the other of the lowest wear oils but GREAT oxidation resistance. If an oil has a 3 on the wear test and a 500 on the TFOUT test then I would say that oil is a better oil. Why??? low wear is what I look for but it should be combined with good oxidation resistance. Great oxidation resistance means nothing if the wear is 4 times higher.
How accurate are thest tests? given the Falex test one # is equal to 0.0000556 of wear. So the oil that had a 3 of wear was 3 times 0.0000556.
The TFOUT uses the same chemicals that are found in your engine that oxidize your oil. They are 5 weight % of soluble metal catalysts, 5 weight percent oxidezed fuel components and 2 percent water. These 3 things simulate the contaminants that an oil is exposed to in an engine from wear debris, blow-by, and condensation. Then the test is pressurized with oxygen at 90 psi. The test is run until the period referred to as the induction time for the onset of oxidative degradation. The higher the minutes before this happens the better the oxidation resistance of the oil.
This is why I have chosed the LE 10w-30 oil for my truck. When looking at both the wear and oxidation resistance of oils the LE oil had the lowest wear combined with the high resistance to oxidation.
I have seen some oils with a wear rate of 5 but only 125 TFOUT. I've seen other oils with a 12 wear rate but very high TFOUT of over 800. Both of these oils would be qualified as the best because they fall short in one catagory or another. That is why I look at both factors together.
Sincerely,
Kevin
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David
Dodge Dakota
8/07/2001
12:54:36
| RE: Oil recommendations...
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Message:
Kevin,
Where would one be able to purchase the LE oil?
David
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Kevin Dinwidd
Dodge Dakota
8/07/2001
13:16:05
| RE: Oil recommendations...
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Message:
For orders less than 1 case (24 quarts) call Mag-Hytec at 1-818-786-8325 or for larger orders e-mail me for a location in your area.
dinwiddiek@earthlink.net
Sincerely,
Kevin
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Rascal
Dodge Dakota
8/07/2001
17:38:49
| RE: Oil recommendations...
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Hmmm...
Wayne, I think the answer is A) AND B)
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tj
Dodge Dakota
8/07/2001
21:49:00
| RE: Oil recommendations...
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Kevin you sound like a used oil salesman with an education!
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Kevin Dinwidd
Dodge Dakota
8/07/2001
22:25:27
| RE: Oil recommendations...
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Thank you tj --- I think
Kevin
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Wayne
Dodge Dakota
8/11/2001
15:00:37
| RE: Oil recommendations...
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Well MAR I originally was born in....never mind. I read the thread and found that you have a line of bull that is unbelieveable. Sorry to flame you pal, but I was in a bad mood when I wrote that. You and the others rave on with your arguement
Kevin - I'm sorry to try to pull you into the muck and mire. You seem to know something about oil which is more than I can say for the rest of us. Stick around. We will wear you out with questions.
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Kevin Dinwidd
Dodge Dakota
8/11/2001
16:33:55
| RE: Oil recommendations...
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OK Wayne, I'm still here to help.
Kevin
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Wayne
Dodge Dakota
8/11/2001
16:42:50
| RE: Oil recommendations...
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Thanks. We appreciate it.
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Wayne
Dodge Dakota
8/17/2001
03:14:16
| RE: Oil recommendations...
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It is funny how everyone shuts up when someone that knows something enters the picture. All the "my oil is better than your oil" hype just disappeared and suddenly no one is interested in oil any longer. Maybe you guys e-mailed Kevin like I did. If not, I suggest you start asking questions. Now is your chance and you may be surprised as to how your chosen brand of oil stacks up. I know I was.
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