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General Dakota Board
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Pissed_In_WI
Dodge Dakota
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6/09/2006
10:46:00
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 Subject: My piece of crap - 1997 3.9 V6 2WD
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I have a 1997 Dodge Dakota SLT with 3.9L V6 engine and 2WD which I bought new at the time. I loved the truck until it hit 85,000 miles in 2003, at which point I started experiencing complete oil pressure loss. It wasn't a sensor problem, the valves would start hammering as soon as the needle dipped to zero and the "check engine" light came on.
At that time, I brought my truck into my dealer (Dodge City - Milwaukee), thinking that they would be best skilled at diagnosing the problem. Their diagnosis: "Excessive engine sludge". They cleaned the filter to my oil pump and charged me $900, which I later came to realize is probably about right due to the amount of labor it is to remove the oil pan on this vehicle.
So OK, fast forward to the fall of 2005.. AND THE SAME THING HAPPENS. I got 15,000 miles out of it since the last "fix", and no oil pressure AGAIN. It starts fine, runs fine for about two minutes, and the oil pressure gauge just bloops down to zero.
I was so disgusted I put the thing on blocks to see if I could pull the engine apart and diagnose the problem myself. The problem is that I don't have an engine hoist, and I decided that getting rained on by rust while working underneath the engine just wasn't for me.
Here's the symptoms:
1) The truck is dribbling water out of the tailpipe by the cupful under normal conditions.
2) I experienced lack of heat during the winter, but with no external coolant loss.
3) The oil looked like crap - I still have a blackened "crust" on the dipstick, and engine flushes yielded a ton of blackened crud.
Sure sounds like something, eh? Well, I finally got the thing back off the blocks this week and delivered it back to my dealer.
Their answer: "Oh, we've NEVER heard of this happening before. You're looking at a LOT of money to pay our technicians to troubleshoot this problem."
I told them that there was quite a bit of information on the forums about the sludge issue with this engine, and they said "Well, you can find whatever you want on the internet".
Are they even ashamed enough to acknowledge that they missed a cracked head? NO WAY.
So anyhow, in addition to the coolant in the oil, my litany of issues just seems to add thousands of dollars to the price.. the windshield started cracking from the center underneath the gasket. "A thousand dollars"...
The air conditioner needs a recharge: "Could be a thousand dollars"....
I'd hate to bring up the fact that the ceiling fabric on this vehicle is coming down in clumps. I'm worried that that would cost a "thousand dollars" to glue back into place.
Dodges suck, and "Schlossmann's Dodge City" in Milwaukee sucks the worst. Avoid like the plague!!!!!!!!
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cuzindoug
GenIII
6/09/2006
11:47:55
|  RE: My piece of crap - 1997 3.9 V6 2WD
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Wow!!
Have you ever cleaned the ceiling fabric? If you have, and didn't completely rinse it off, that will be the problem will the falling fabric. Certain cleaners disolve ANY glue.
A/C recharge could cost you as little as a bottle of refridgerant from your local parts store.
Get windshield insurance, it's cheap, and the replacement windshield could cost from 0-$500 depending on your deductable.
The lack of heat is probably a plugged heater core...happens on almost ALL vehicles Dodge, Ford, Toyota, etc. Back flush it out.
The cracked head probably cause the second sludge up.
ALL vehicles will expel water from the tailpipe, it's called condensation.
What kind of maintenance do you do on your vehicle? I have 110K on mine 97, and I have NEVER had any engine problems on it.
The only things I have HAD to replace due to malfunction/repair were the upper/lower ball joints($300), 3 stone chipped windshields(free $0 deductable insurance), timing chain($100), and fuel pump module($200). Everything else was just routine maintenance, i.e. oil, oil filter, air filter, cap/rotor/wires/plugs, brake shoes/pads (once at 85K), etc.
If you take care of your vehicle, it will take care of you. Sure, Dodge may have it's hic-ups, but so does EVERY OTHER major vehicle manufacturer.
If you want a cheap alternative to dropping the pan to clean the sludge, I have heard other people talking about the engine flush Pepboys does fairly cheap. They run heated detergent throught the filter port to the oil pump and vacuum it out through the drain plug hole.
If it doesn't fit, force it. If it breaks...well...it needed to be replaced anyway.
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jpkomm
Dodge Dakota
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6/09/2006
12:54:27
| RE: My piece of crap - 1997 3.9 V6 2WD
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Sorry to hear about your bad run of luck. Most of the problems with sludging that I've come across has been due to dino-juice (non-syn) oil being left in for too long between oil changed. Ends up turning into a jelly. How long did you typically go between oil changed? I don't particularly believe the service manual is too realistic if you are using conventional oils.
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Obio3
Dodge Dakota
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6/09/2006
21:02:31
| RE: My piece of crap - 1997 3.9 V6 2WD
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Can anybody explain to me how pressure flushing through the filter port is pushed through the pump gears to the intake screan. try as I might, i can not see this happening.
So many problems .... So little time
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cuzindoug
GenIII
6/09/2006
22:31:47
| RE: My piece of crap - 1997 3.9 V6 2WD
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You know Obio3, I can't see it either, unless it passes between the pump gear lobes and housing. I think there is about 0.0005-0.001 clearance between the two. I guess if the pressure was high enough, it would work.
If it doesn't fit, force it. If it breaks...well...it needed to be replaced anyway.
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Obio3
Dodge Dakota
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6/10/2006
00:53:02
| RE: My piece of crap - 1997 3.9 V6 2WD
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With all due respect, I can't see the oil pump gasket or the seal on the filter adapter taking the sort of pressure it would require to push sludge out of the screan. Just the size of the screan would require considerable air or light fluid flow to do more the push a small hole through it and most likely it will still have a small area passing oil or the engine would have burned itself up. If the gears could pass that much THIN fluid even, I doubt it could develope enough hydralic force to push more then a very tiny amount of oil. I'd love to know if there is an actual advantage to this kind of flush.
So many problems .... So little time
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shatto
Dodge Dakota
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6/10/2006
17:47:27
| RE: My piece of crap - 1997 3.9 V6 2WD
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Pissed,
.What oil and filter do you use?
.It is possible the oil allowed so much wear that 30 weight oil is too thin. You might go to 5W-40.
.Water out the talipipe is a normal byproduct of ethinol and with todays catalyc converters, I think.
.Your engine is essentially the same as my 98, and the oil pressures are almost absurdly low, you'd think, at around 8 to 20 pounds at idle, and up to wherever it feels like running.
I recently replaced the pump on mine and, on the mechanical gauge, the reading at idle is 8 lbs (so the damn light goes on and it reads zero on the dash) and 40 running. Screw it. If the engineers think its okay, why argue, especially since I've gone 500,000 miles that way.
.You might run a can of Amsoil Engine Flush. It turned my oil into the thinnest liquid I ever saw. You can be sure everything is clean afterwords.
.I pay Farmers Insurance a couple bucks a month for the Zero Deductable Glass Rider. Replaced 4 this year.
.Get you some referrals. Ask who the guy with the sharp looking truck, or car, uses. Know any racers? Ask your transmission or tire guy where he would send his mom. Ask the Chevy dealer who they send their Dodges to.
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Pissed_In_WI
Dodge Dakota
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6/11/2006
15:45:30
| RE: My piece of crap - 1997 3.9 V6 2WD
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UPDATE: I got a rude call from the service manager while I was aleep Friday afternoon, urging me to replace the engine, since they found "sludge" in the upper manifold...
(Duh!)
With a new motor, my truck would be right as rain, you know. The service guy was grudgingly willing to do so - you know, only as a favor to me and everything - for the total of.. drumroll.. FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS. Of course, the AC is another thousand, and the windshield, another thousand..
Gosh, where's my wallet, what a deal!!!
These guys will be getting a piece of my mind tomorrow morning. I'm actually genuinely OFFENDED that they thought I'd bite at that. I can find ten garages within ten miles willing to do the job for half that price. I'm just embarassed now that I actually towed the thing in there, thinking that they'd fix the problem.
Stupid me.
That dealer?? It's SCHLOSSMAN'S DODGE CITY, MILWAUKEE, WISCONSIN. Avoid like the plague.
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shatto
Dodge Dakota
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6/11/2006
20:35:45
| RE: My piece of crap - 1997 3.9 V6 2WD
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Laser Guided Bomb; www.clarkhoward.com.
Clark is a consumer advocate on radio. His people contact and negotiate.
Nuke; www.troubleshootertom.com.
Tom Martino is a radio consumer advovate, who doesn't at all mind naming names and confronting dealerships on live radio.
Slick;
Ask someone with a really pretty truck or car who they would send their mother to for automotive work.
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door county g
Dodge Dakota
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8/29/2006
13:02:16
| RE: My piece of crap - 1997 3.9 V6 2WD
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come to me and trade for a toyota the are like the bunny they keep going and going
preventive maintence from walmart is cheap $22.00 for alube oil and filter 4x ayear $88.oo cant do better than that windshields at triumph auto glass about $200. shop around dont go for the big
ripoff texas steakhouse corona $2.oo a bottle
RIPTIDE BY THE RIVER $5.00 open eyes see realist
prices are available "the door county God father"
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jerry
Dodge Dakota
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8/29/2006
13:31:59
| RE: My piece of crap - 1997 3.9 V6 2WD
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Wake up. Dealers are almost always higher than an independant in their repairs. Case in point. Went to Ron Tonkin Dodge in Gladstone, OR. to check out a trouble light. Was tranny - they wanted $4,600 to rebuild it, probablt because I had an extended warranty and they figured they would pay. They rightfully balked and tod me to take to an independant tranny shop. I went to Aamco and they rebuilt it for $1,950 with torque converter. If I had shopped around more I may have been able to get it for less, but when your car has had the tranny removed and they wanted a couple hundred in labor to put it back together you figure you may as well have it done there as who knows what the next shop may charge. Case #2 - broken gears in a jeep - Dealer wanted $1500. Independant drive train shop charged $750. Now I may pay $50 diagnostic fee to the dealer to find out what a problem is, and take it somewhere else to be fixed, depending upon warranty coverage and cost. Dealers try to rip you a new one when they sell you a car, why should you expect less when they want to repair it. After all, warranty work is one of their biggest money makers.
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