RE: Winter Preparation = Amsoil Protection

Subject: RE: Winter Preparation = Amsoil Protection
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"I could say more but I am leaving the office for the day."

Thank God for small miracles!

Eye_Trip
Dodge Dakota
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1/06/2005
17:47:02

RE: Winter Preparation = Amsoil Protection
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ROTFLMAO

Roger
Dodge Dakota
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1/06/2005
19:02:47

RE: Winter Preparation = Amsoil Protection
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I see the your back to paying dues again Eye-Trip. I remember last year when you swore you would never be a paying member nor post on this website again. Hmmmm...maybe the reason is that you have no friends with which to communicate and flaming Amsoil fills that large void in your life. Your inability to function in a social society has absolute consequences. There are support groups for anti-socials such as yourself. Commit to one and enjoy what life has to offer.

AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast

1/06/2005
19:18:37

Amsoil www.american-synthetic-oil.com Amzoil
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Roger,

Eye_Trip's comments have NEVER bothered me.

I am quite thankful actually because he keeps
my threads near the top by continuing to post.

As a THANK YOU ... This SPAM is just for Eye_Trip.

Enjoy your Spiced Ham (Spam) while I eat steak.

_____

_____

__________________________________________________

Eye_Trip, you too can Request a FREE Amsoil Catalog by clicking below.

Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com

AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products

furball69
Dodge Dakota
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1/06/2005
21:04:45

RE: Winter Preparation = Amsoil Protection
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Quote: Amsoin sponsor

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You are correst in that "cost" is the main factor. If you get the API certification it "locks" you into a particulat formulation.

Mobil1 Racing Oil is not API certified. Also check
Royal Purple and Redline while you are at it.
__________________________________________________

The "test" that you mention is unscientific and they changed testing companies half way thru the testing which suggests that the results should be thrown out the window.

Also, Analysis is NOT the END ALL to understanding how well a particular oil holds up in an engine. A UOA (Used Oil Analysis) is a trend analysis "per vehicle" and reports will be different "per vehicle" (using the same oil brand and viscosity). Simply put ... You can not compare across brands or between vehicles. UOA's are not used to determine "oil quality". Rather ... how the oil performed in a particular engine ... and for early detection of an engine problem to allow for early corrective action before a major repair might becone necessary.

A UOA establishes a "trend" within a certain engine, AND ... "Given enough samples, trends can be identified and we can get a pretty good idea of how an oil "generally" performs." That is why Amsoil has maintained their superiority for over 30 years, proven with over 30-years of Used oil Analysis.

End quote

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I find it funny when one tries to twist words and facts and blow smoke to their benefit when they are losing an argument.

No one has mentioned Mobil1 Racing oil in this thread; except you, in an effort to detract from Amsoil's non certification status. Mobil1 synthetic motor oil most certainly is API certified. Redline testing is going on as we speak.. Should be about 11.75 months for the final results.

There were no testing or laboratory changes during the test using Amsoil, so, what would you say is the cause of the 5W30 oil ending up as a 15W40 in that particular engine? I find it quite interesting that on the ONE engine that someone decides to run an independant test, that the oil has such a drastic change in viscosity.

====

"You can not compare across brands or between vehicles. UOA's are not used to determine "oil quality". Rather ... how the oil performed in a particular engine"

Correct. I see how Amsoil performed in THAT particular engine and it scares me. I don't want to run 15W40 in my new truck, not when I paid for 5W30.

====

"The "test" that you mention is unscientific and they changed testing companies half way thru the testing which suggests that the results should be thrown out the window."

So if I want a 'scientific' comparison of how different brands of motor oil perform in the real world I should set up a bunch of engines in a lab with a bunch of geeks in lab coats sniffing exhaust? That is not real world and the test with the LS1 has more merit than any scientific test will have.

The people doing the test on the LS1 engine did NOT change laboratories in the middle of the testing; they changed the method of determining the TBN. Base being alkalinity, in terms of fighting acidity in the oil. There seem to be many different ways to determine TBN with as many differing results. So IMO the TBN results should be taken with a grain of salt and perhaps two methods on every test should be used and the results averaged.

I found the following at: http://www.nordicgroup.us/oil.htm#Miscarriages

API Certification, Phosphorus & ZDDP
Never use a non-API certified synthetic oil (there are many of these on the market). The problem with the non-API certified synthetics is that they contain too much phosphorus (in the form of the additive ZDDP (Zinc Dialkyl Dithiophosphates)). The API has limited the amount of phosphorus because phosphorus shortens the life of the catalytic converter. These oils are fine for snowmobiles, motorcycles, and older cars that don't have a catalytic converter, and the extra ZDDP does provide additional wear protection. Unfortunately, the marketers of some the non-certified oils do not explicitly and honestly state the reason for the lack of API certification. You can check the status of API certification on the API web site. Be certain to go not just by the manufacturer name but by the actual product as well. This is because a manufacturer will sometimes have both certified and non-certified products. Suffice it to say that Mobil 1, Royal Purple, Castrol, & Havoline all make synthetic oils that are API certified and that can be purchased at auto parts stores and other retail outlets. Amsoil has one product line, XL-7500 that is API certified, but it's other lines contain too much ZDDP to be certified and should not be used in vehicles with catalytic converters.

Nothing personal, I just like to know all the facts, and I like everyone else to be informed as well. As you might understand I did a fair bit of research before I decided on al oil for my new truck.

Eye_Trip
Dodge Dakota
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1/06/2005
21:49:56

RE: Winter Preparation = Amsoil Protection
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Roger your memory sux dude. Try not to draw any conclusions either, it obviously is not you’re forte.

"Hmmmm...maybe the reason is that you have no friends with which to communicate and flaming Amsoil fills that large void in your life." Let's pretend for just a second that you have it all figured out... whats your excuse? *cough* suckup *cough*

"Your inability to function in a social society has absolute consequences."
Slow down tiger... WTF "absolute consequences"? are you trying to say anyways? You might want to use smaller words that you can piece together easier so us sloooow folks can understand.

And Steve is a great salesman I do have to admit that. He has so many people droned into his product it's astonishing. Thumbs up Steve, that’s what business is all about.

AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast

1/07/2005
07:02:42

Amsoil Syntetic Motor oil API or NOT - Amzoil
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Why Some AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils Are API Licensed And Some Are Not

1. Full API licensing puts AMSOIL INC. in an inflexible position. Not only would we find it necessary to buy formula components from specific vendors and be at the mercy of their pricing, we would not be able to make any major improvements to the lubricant formulas for 2 to 3 years, without new testing and the associated costs. To solve this problem, the API must establish basestock interchange guidelines for synthetic basestocks just as they have for other basestocks, as well as develop interchange guidelines for other components too.

2. Full API licensing would impose strict phosphorous limitations on our motor oils. This limitation is the main reason most AMSOIL motor oils are not API licensed. AMSOIL INC. currently disagrees with this limitation and feels strongly that the reduced wear and longer oil and additive life achieved through higher levels of properly balanced phosphorous content is more important than the arbitrary API phosphorous limit that does not give any consideration to the NOACK volatility level of an oil. When chemistry is developed that will provide superior engine wear protection with reduced phosphorous levels, or Noack volatility considerations are put in place, then the phosphorous level will become a non-issue.
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For The Record --- ACEA vs. API

European ACEA oil standards are much higher than what the minimum API requires. Amsoil has only "ONE" formulation ... their "best" ... which exceeds both ACEA and API standards, not so with Mobil1. They have two formulations ... one for European ACEA and one for U.S. API. Americans are not offered Mobil1's best formulation ... it is reserved only for Europeans.
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Flexibility (or the lack of) In Manufacturing An API Licensed Formula

API licensing was originally developed for mineral based oils, and it affords these oils more flexibility than synthetic oils.

Mineral oils comprised of group I and Group II petroleum basestocks may use a simple program called basestock interchange for added flexibility in manufacturing and purchasing. Interchange means that by completing the proper paperwork and running a few minor engine tests an oil company can choose to buy these petroleum basestocks from many different suppliers. This ensures adequate supply and competitive pricing. However, basestock interchange for Group III and V synthetic basestocks is not allowed. For example, if a formula was tested with an ester (Group V) basestock from a specific supplier, then anyone blending that formula must buy only that supplier's ester. Complete engine testing would need to be performed on the formula using another supplier's ester before an oil company could buy it from that alternative supplier. This additional testing is normally not performed because of the associated costs. This inflexibility makes it very difficult for synthetic lubricant manufacturers to negotiate prices with synthetic basestock suppliers. Click HERE for more information about Group I through Group V basestocks.

There is also something called viscosity grade read-across. Fortunately, this applies to both petroleum and synthetic basestocks although the better cold temperature performance of synthetics makes it more difficult to achieve in some situations. (That's another whole story.) What this means is that if you properly formulate the lubricant for which you have run all of the API tests, there are guidelines that allow you to use that same formula to make 0W-30, 5W-30, 10W-30, etc. viscosity motor oil.

Finally, there is a rule for substitutions in the CMA (Chemical Manufacturers Association) code of practice that allows a small degree of flexibility for all formulas. It allows a company to change the percentages of components in the formula by varying amounts from the original formula with limited testing and paperwork requirements. For example, if the licensed formula used 10% of a certain V.I. improver, you would have the ability to utilize from 9% to 11% of the same V.I. improver for your formula.

Key Limitations For API Licensed Formulas

Phosphorous content - .10% maximum
(API SL; 0W-20, 5W-20, 0W-30, 5W-30, 10W-30 viscosity grades, only)

NOACK volatility - 15% maximum

The prevalent sources of phosphorous in motor oils are additives called zinc dithiophosphates (ZDTPs). Currently, these versatile additives act as oxidation/corrosion inhibitors and aid in the ability of a lubricant to reduce wear. The automobile manufacturers, however, have demanded that lubricants contain a maximum of only .10% phosphorous. Their reason is that some manufacturers believe that higher phosphorous content levels will poison the catalytic converters on their cars before they reach 150,000 miles, which is the number of miles that their vehicles will be required to pass EPA emission standards. There has not been total agreement within the automotive and lubrication industry about whether phosphorous levels over .10% actually do harm catalytic converters in the long run. What they have failed to make allowances for is the NOACK volatility of an oil.

The maximum allowable NOACK volatility percentage for the new SL/GF-3 passenger car motor oil specification is 15%. Most of AMSOIL motor oils are in the 5% to 8% NOACK volatility range. Studies have shown there is a correlation between NOACK volatility, oil consumption and the amount of phosphorous from motor oil that will end up in the exhaust gasses. Therefore, oils with higher levels of phosphorous but with low volatility, such as AMSOIL motor oils, present no more risk to catalytic converters than low phosphorous oils with higher NOACK volatility. This has also been demonstrated for years in actual application through state mandated exhaust gas testing on our Dealers' and customers' high mileage vehicles using AMSOIL synthetic motor oils. State inspectors are continually amazed at the low emissions levels generated by vehicles using AMSOIL products. So much for poisoning catalytic converters.

AMSOIL INC. has determined that the reduced wear and extended drain intervals achievable with phosphorous levels higher than the API limit of .10% are real benefits for the consumer, and pose no risk to catalytic converters. AMSOIL motor oils, except for the API licensed XL-7500 5W-30, 5W-20 and 10W-30 viscosity grades, all have greater than .10% phosphorous levels, and therefore, cannot be API licensed.
__________________________________________________

How Does AMSOIL INC. Ensure Their Products Meet Or Exceed The Minimum Specifications Of The Tests Required For API Licensing?

First, AMSOIL INC. works closely with major additive companies to select the top performing, and usually most expensive, passenger car and heavy duty diesel motor oil additives. These additives have already passed all of the API licensing requirements in a petroleum or synthetic based formulation. Then we work with the additive company to maximize the amount of additive used and to boost the additive package in selected performance areas to achieve an optimum performing additive package for reduced wear and extended drain intervals. This is unlike the vast majority of companies who, because additives are expensive, use the minimum amount of the least expensive additives required to meet the minimum API requirements.

We then utilize a blend of synthetic basestocks with known performance characteristics as a replacement for the petroleum basestocks to optimize performance in areas of lubricity, volatility, viscosity index, oxidation and nitration resistance, pour points, flash points, deposit control, soot handling, emissions, etc. We also will utilize a highly shear stable V.I. improver to ensure viscosity retention throughout extended drain intervals. This replaces the inexpensive and less shear stable V.I. improver used in the API licensed petroleum formula. We do laboratory bench tests before running field tests to verify the superiority of the synthetic formula in actual use. We also continue to monitor the performance of the oil through close scrutiny of tens of thousands of oil analysis tests per year across a wide variety of vehicles all around North America and the World. AMSOIL INC. has been collecting used synthetic oil samples from passenger cars since 1982. No other oil company has such a vast data base of the performance of synthetic lubricants over extended drain intervals.

AMSOIL INC.'s products and formulations outperform API licensed oils. They're engineered that way. Period.

*** Conclusion ***

AMSOIL INC. takes pride in never having conformed to industry norms or standards when those standards are contrary to peak performance. We introduced synthetics to the automotive world in 1972 with the first synthetic motor oil to exceed API performance specifications. At that time other manufacturers refused to recognize the superior performance of synthetic motor oils. Now, however, most companies sell synthetic lubricants, vehicles are factory filled with synthetic motor oils and gear lubes, and some manufacturers even offer extended warranties if you use synthetics. AMSOIL has always offered extended drain intervals because the oil was capable of performing for extended drains, and it was the right thing to do for the consumer. Now the entire industry is moving in that direction. Ironically, it was recently published that automotive manufacturers will be recommending extended drain intervals of up to 15,000 miles in the near future because that's what consumers want.

AMSOIL is a company of firsts. That doesn't happen by always conforming to industry norms and standards.

API Licensing of Lubricants is Voluntary

API licensing of lubricants is voluntary, and it ensures automobile manufacturers and consumers that the product meets a set of minimum standards. Should these standards, in the future, be raised to a level consistent with AMSOIL's standards for motor oil performance, AMSOIL will consider licensing all oils. For those that feel pressured to use an API licensed product, we have them and encourage you to use them (XLT, XLM, XLF and PCO). AMSOIL does offer better performing motor oils that are not API licensed for all of the reasons explained in this response. They provide our customers with alternatives to the commodity products typically available in the market today. If you want the convenience of extended drain intervals or the top performance from your vehicle, AMSOIL has taken time to engineer the very best money can buy.
--------------------------------------------------
Anyone interested in requesting a FREE Amsoil Catalog can click the link below.
__________________________________________________

I stand by this:

Analysis is NOY the END ALL to understanding how well a particular oil holds up in an engine. A UOA (Used Oil Analysis) is a trend analysis "per vehicle" and reports will be different "per vehicle" (using the same oil brand and viscosity). You can not compare across brands or between vehicles. UOA's are not used to determine "oil quality". Rather ... how the oil performed in a particular engine ... and for early detection of an engine problem to allow for early corrective action before a major repair might becone necessary.
__________________________________________________

Not all oils will perform the same way in the same model vehicle, or in the same engine. Okay, so Amsoil thickened in that particular engine. Now, Look closly at the LOWER WEAR METALS in your test and tell me who won! Thank you.

__________________________________________________

Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com

AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products

AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast

1/07/2005
07:17:11

Amsoil Dealer Steven Roark #1061837 = Amzoil
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In addition:

The "test" that you mention is unscientific and they changed testing companies half way thru the Amsoil testing which suggests that the results should be thrown out the window.

The "new" testing method by the second oul analysis company is suspect, as that oil analysis company always gives lower TBN results when compared to all other major oil analysis companies.

Was the site owner biased towards Mobil1. If not, then why did he change test companies half-way through the Amsoil test?

Amsoil = Better Wear Numbers and Higher TBN (if he had used the original test company throughout the test)
__________________________________________________

Thank You!

Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com

AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products

furball69
Dodge Dakota
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1/07/2005
14:34:29

RE: Winter Preparation = Amsoil Protection
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AmsoilSponsor.

Great info, it's nice to have something else to go on rather than the tired marketing jargon.

I appreciate the responses.

Steve.

96 dak
Dodge Dakota
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1/07/2005
18:24:40

RE: Winter Preparation = Amsoil Protection
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Guess what, I just put Amsoil in my truck and the engine turned to solid gold.

Roger
Dodge Dakota
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1/07/2005
18:47:22

RE: Winter Preparation = Amsoil Protection
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Well Eye-Trip, I noticed that you didn't refute my claim about you not wanting to be a member of this site, but rather deflected by spewing some childish gibberish. This is typical behavior from you and we've all seen it before.

BTW, since my memory "sux", reiterate why you always flame Steve. I mean, if this was about politics or something to get passionate about, no one here would think you're a loser. However, since it is about oil, I hardly think your disdain for amsoil/steve is justified. It really just makes you look stupid (and in serious need of a friend to get you out of the house). Best wishes on that.

I think steve is a great guy and he has given the members and non-members of this site plenty of great advice. Show some respect for a sponsor and refrain from bashing his amsoil promotion. It's his job and quite frankly his right. He pays to keep this site active. You'd think you would support him, but that concept is most likely lost on you. Ahhh....whatever. Keep posting your stupid put downs Eye Trip. Steve put it best by stating that all your doing is helping him promote Amsoil. Tag.

ttt
Dodge Dakota
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1/11/2005
18:57:09

RE: Winter Preparation = Amsoil Protection
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ttt

AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast

1/12/2005
20:41:04

Winter Preparation Amsoil Protection Oil Pressure
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Someone sent me an Email asking about low oil pressure and oil thickening in the winter and what damage could be done as a result. Here is my response which I will share with everyone.

Thick Oil, Poor Pumpability

Low oil pressure in cold temperatures is due to the oil becoming too thick causing poor pumpability of the lubricant. This property is measured with the Mini-Rotary Viscometer (MRV). It determines the borderline pumping temperature of a lubricant.

In addition, old oil will have worse cold temperature performance than new oil because oxidation thickens the oil and evaporation of the light components leaves the heavy thick components behind.

Poor cold temperature performance will result in oil starvation, causing rapid wear of the bearings, pistons, cylinders, and rings. There are several solutions to this problem:

1) Change to a 5W-30 or better yet, a 0W-30 oil
2) Use quality synthetic oil like AMSOIL
3) Park the vehicle in a heated garage
4) Keep a sheet on the motor, plug it in, etc.

__________________________________________________

You can Request a FREE Amsoil Catalog by clicking below

Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com

AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products

ggg
Dodge Dakota
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1/12/2005
23:32:44

RE: Winter Preparation = Amsoil Protection
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AmsoilSponsor go take a flying go fuk yourself and get a life. ever think about stickin it in your wife for change instead of spreadin your bullsh*t here.

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