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fastyz400
Dodge Dakota
JOIN HERE
2/16/2004
12:39:26
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 Subject: Synthetic, Oil Sludge?
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Just wondering if sythetic oil ever sludge up? Any pointer from the Amsoil guy would be great.
Been using Mobile 1 since new. So, after reading all the post where the pick up screen gets clogged by sludge and buildup, i am a little concerned.
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ZenDak
Dodge Dakota
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2/16/2004
12:42:45
|  RE: Synthetic, Oil Sludge?
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I'm a little concerned too. Got sludge first time about 2wks ago - have about 90,000 on my '01 4.7. Quite a bit of sludge too. Live in TX, and it's mostly hwy miles,,but the rest of the time I drive the snot out her around town. Weird...
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
2/16/2004
14:28:26
|  Amsoil -- Synthetic Oil Sludge Myths
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okay guys, here goes ...
Not all synthetic oils are created equal. Yes, --- they may have similar base oils --- but it is the manufacturers specific blend of Group III and Group IV Base Oils --- and more specifically the quality of the additives package that makes all the difference. If you are experiencing sludge problems --- consider switching to a 100% True Premium Synthetic Oil that offers the best dispersant / detergent additive package.
WHAT CAUSES SLUDGE --- IN GENERAL
Blowby gases and shear stresses in bearings are creating sludge "molecules" all the time. These molecules forms a brown to black tacky substance that will adhere to engine parts and oil return passageways unless there is sufficient "solvency" to break them up. Solvency is created with the addition of Magnesium and Calcium dispersant-detergent packages --- a.k.a. part of the additives package in an oil.
As part of the additives package ---Solvents "depolymerize" the sludge, and attempt to break up sludge molecules, and then float them to the filter via the normal oil stream.
Again, If you are experiencing sludge problems --- consider switching to a synthetic oil that offers a better dispersant / detergent additive package.
You can perform a "forum search" here and learn more about sludge problems --- cause and effects.
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There are three types of synthetic oils marketed today. Brief Descriptions:
(1) PRETEND (FAKE) SYNTHETICS -
Group III Base Oil (hydrocracked conventional petroleum crude dino). Castrol started this by taking dino though additional refining processes and the courts ruled that they could "use" the work synthetic.
(2) 100% TRUE Synthetic Oil -
Uniform molecules built in the laboratory. Typically blended with a combination of:
--- Group IV = ( PAO or Polyalphaolefin ) base oil.
--- Group V = an esther or polyolester base oil.
--- Each manufacturers unique Additives Package
(3) Synthetic Blends -
With commercially available synthetic blends, you have no idea of what the synthetic to dino oil ratio is. It is a marketing ploy to confuse the public. Blends allow for a lower quality/price base oil / additive package --- to be mixed with a small amount of synthetic, meet the specs, and get a premium price from you the consumer.
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Most of the PRETEND (Fake) Synthetics use a Group III base oil ( hydrocracked conventional petroleum / dino ). A 100% TRUE Synthetic Oil uses either the Group IV or Group V base oil, or a mix of the two, plus their own unique additives package. As a matter of fact, I don't think any of the TRUE synthetics use all of one, they mix a combination of both. Group IV is PAOs (Polyalfaolefins) while Group IV is the esters.
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Let's put to bed some of the objections you will hear concerning the use of synthetic engine lubricants (some are old debates ... some are new): (Your concern is answered in Myth #5)
Myth #1: Synthetic motor oils damage seals
Untrue. It would be foolhardy for lubricant manufacturers to build a product that is incompatible with seals. The composition of seals presents problems that both petroleum oils and synthetics must overcome. Made from elastomers, seals are inherently difficult to standardize. Ultimately it is the additive mix in the oil that counts. Additives to control seal swell, shrinkage and hardening are required, whether it be a synthetic or petroleum product that is being produced.
Myth #2: Synthetics are too thin to stay in the engine
Untrue. In order for a lubricant to be classified in any SAE grade (10W-30, 10W-40, etc) it has to meet certain guidelines with regard to viscosity ("thickness"). For example, it makes no difference whether it is 10W-40 petroleum or 10W-40 synthetic, at -25 degrees centigrade (-13F) and 100 degrees centigrade (212 degrees F) that oil has to maintain a standardized viscosity or it can't be rated a 10W-40.
Myth #3: Synthetics cause cars to use more oil
Untrue. Synthetic motor oils are intended to use in mechanically sound engines, that is, engines that don't leak. In such engines oil consumption will actually be reduced. First, because of the lower volatility of synlubes. Second, because of the better sealing characteristics between piston rings and cylinder walls. And finally, because of the superior oxidation stability (i.e. resistance of synthetics against reacting with oxygen at high temperatures.)
Myth #4: Synthetic lubricants are not compatible with petroleum
Untrue. The synthesized hydrocarbons, polyalphaolefins, diesters and other materials that form the base stocks of high quality name brand synthetics are fully compatible with petroleum oils. In the old days, some companies used untested ingredients that were not compatible, causing quality synthetic lubricants to suffer a bad reputation. Fortunately, those days are long gone. Compatibility is something to keep in mind, however, whether using petroleum oils or synthetics. It is usually best to use the same oil for topping off that you have been running in the engine. That is, it is preferable to not mix your oils, even if it is Valvoline or Quaker State you are using. The reason is this: the functions of additives blended for specific characteristics can be offset when oils with different additive packages are put together. For optimal performance, it is better to use the same oil throughout.
Myth #5: Synthetic lubricants produce sludge
Untrue. In point of fact, synthetic motor oils are more sludge resistant than their petroleum counterparts, resisting the effects of high temperatures and oxidation. In the presence of high temperatures, two things happen. First, an oil's lighter ingredients boil off, making the oil thicker. Second, many of the complex chemicals found naturally in petroleum base stocks begin to react with each other, forming sludge, gums and varnishes. One result is a loss of fluidity at low temperatures, slowing the timely flow of oil to the engine for vital engine protection. Further negative effects of thickened oil include the restriction of oil flow to critical areas, greater wear and loss of fuel economy. Because of their higher flash points, and their ability to withstand evaporation loss and oxidation, synthetics are much more resistant to sludge development.
Myth #6: Synthetics can't be used with catalytic converters or oxygen sensors
Untrue. In fact the very low ash content of synthetics will extend the life of every exhaust system component.
Myth #7: Synthetics void warranties
Untrue. No major manufacturer of automobiles specifically bans the use of synthetic lubricants. In point of fact, increasing numbers of high performance cars are arriving on the showroom floors with synthetic motor oils as factory fill. Which may not make the dealers too happy since oil changes usually lead to other service work.
Myth #8: Synthetics last forever
Untrue. Although some experts feel that synthetic base stocks themselves can be used forever, it is well known that eventually the additives will falter and cause the oil to require changing. However, by "topping off", additives can be replenished. Through good filtration and periodic oil analysis, synthetic motor oils protect an engine for lengths of time far beyond the capability of non synthetics. Amsoil's unique additives packages allow for extended drain intervals.
Myth #9: Synthetics are too expensive
Untrue. Tests and experience have proven that synthetics can greatly extend drain intervals, provide better fuel economy, reduce engine wear and enable vehicles to operate with greater reliability. All these elements combine to make synthetic engine lubricants more economical than conventional non synthetics. In Europe, synthetics have enjoyed increasing acceptance as car buyers look first to performance and long term value rather than initial price. As more sophisticated technology places greater demands on today's motor oils, we will no doubt see an increasing re-evaluation of oil buying habits in this country as well.
Myth #10: Synthetic oils contain detergents that can make the oil seals leak in older cars
Synthetic lubricants do have an inherent detergency that cleans and removes conventional motor oil deposits left over in an engine. However, motor oils are designed to help swell seals slightly to prevent leakage. The only time you would observe seal leakage is if the seals are already damaged or showing signs of leakage around them. As long as the vehicle has been well maintained, and in good mechanical condition, it can be switched to a synthetic lubricant at any mileage.
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There are other MYTHS and non-truths circulating the forums, garages, and race tracks. The nine above are just a few that I wanted to address.
Conclusions
Since their inception, manufacturers of synthetic motor oils have sought to educate the public about the facts regarding synthetics, and the need for consumers to make their lubrication purchasing decisions based on quality rather than price. As was the case with microwave ovens or electric lights, a highly technological improvement must often overcome a fair amount of public skepticism and consumer inertia before it is embraced by the general population. But the word has been getting out as a growing number of motorists worldwide experience the benefits of synthetic lubrication. The wave of the future, in automobile lubrication, is here, and Amsoil has lead the march, recently celebrating their 30th year in business. For the environmental enthusiasts, the use of synthetics could reduce waste oil disposal by 80%, so if environment is your thing, then synthetic lubricants should be your choice.
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Request a FREE Amsoil Catalog by clicking the following link:
__________________________________________________
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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BigBlueQC
GenIII
2/16/2004
15:56:03
| RE: Synthetic, Oil Sludge?
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Message:
Steve, I did read #5 above but I have seen the white sludge/buildup inside the filler cap & neck on my truck. Never thick, like I would invision a sludge to look like, just a white coating.
2002 QC 4x4 Sport Plus, 4.7L, auto, Patriot Blue, Tire & Handling group,
Heavy Duty Service group, Leer cap w/out windows, Mopar Step bars and roof rack, Rhino liner in bed and on step bars, Pace Edwards Power Tailgate lock
3.55 rear, 4-wheel anti-lock brakes, all possible fluids are AMSOIL
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AmsoilSponsor
DakotaEnthusiast
2/16/2004
18:04:36
| RE: Synthetic, Oil Sludge?
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Message:
In my last post I made a typo:
The first paragraph should have stated: "Not all synthetic oils are created equal. Yes, --- they may have similar base oils --- but it is the manufacturers specific blend of Group IV and Group V Base Oils --- and more specifically the quality of the additives package that makes all the difference.
I wrongly typed Group III and Group IV.
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Artie,
Always good to see you around and adding information. I've quoted you here a few times ... but I always put it in quotation marks and give you credit.
Seems the "observance of" foaming in the filler cap is pretty unique to the 4.7L, and this issue is much more prevalent during the winter months as condensation is naturally produced --- especially if you are driving short distances.
*** I believe this condition my be present in all engines ...
... just that with the Dodge design it is more visable. ***
Also --- On this site I have read that the cause might be: (1) T-stats, (2) condensation in the crank case from the engine not reaching operating temperature, (3) too many short trips whereby the engine does not warm sufficiently, (5)weeping head gasket, (6) etc., (7) etc., (8) etc.
Again ... please read my above " **** " comment.
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Let me add this bulletin and maybe it helps.
However, It only talks of 1999 - 2000 model years.
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ACCUMULATION OF FOAMY OIL EMULSION 4.7L ENGINE OIL FILL HOUSING
Date: 09/11/00 (02/00)
Bulletin # 090100A (supercedes 090100)
Model year(s): 1999-2000
Description: A customer may complain of an oil emulsion accumulation inside the engine oil fill housing. The oil emulsion will normally be foamy and be gray or light brown in color. The emulsion accumulation will often occur on cooler engine surfaces, like the inside of the oil fill housing. Modern engine oils are designed to address the oil emulsion phenomenon. Oil emulsion accumulation is normal and will not damage the engine A new baffle and a revised oil fill housing cap have been released. The baffle and oil cap will help to reduce the amount of oil emulsion accumulation within the oil fill housing.
Details: If the customer has experienced this issue, then perform the Repair Procedure.
Parts required:
53032126AA Baffle, Oil Fill Housing
53032389AC Cap, Oil Fill Housing
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Any comments Artie? They would be appreciated.
Steven Roark , Amsoil Dealer , Proud Sponsor of www.DodgeDakotas.com
AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oils, Lubricants, Filtration, and Truck Care Products
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